Another way to resolve the "Abstain" conundrum
Jan 18, 2011, 11:06 am
#1
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Another way to resolve the "Abstain" conundrum
Over the past year or more the TalkBoard has attempted to find consensus on the issue of "Abstain" votes. Currently they function exactly the same as "No" votes, but some members like the fact that they make a "Soft No" statement rather than a "Strong No".
After thinking about this, I realized that the solution may be to more fully accommodate this preference for two versions of No, and to make it symmetric by having two versions of Yes. For example, we could allow the following options:
The Soft Yes option is the mirror image of Abstain. Both Strong and Soft Yes would count as Yes, and both Strong and Soft No would count as No. The only difference from current rules would be terminology and the split of the current Yes into two options.
If No voters can have two ways to say it, then Yes voters should have the same freedom!
If the current TB opposes this and wants to have more ways to say No than to say Yes, then perhaps they would instead consider adopting the following voting menu:
After thinking about this, I realized that the solution may be to more fully accommodate this preference for two versions of No, and to make it symmetric by having two versions of Yes. For example, we could allow the following options:
- Support, meaning Strong Yes
- Do Not Oppose, meaning Soft Yes
- Do Not Support, meaning Soft No, precisely equivalent to the current Abstain
- Oppose, meaning Strong No
If No voters can have two ways to say it, then Yes voters should have the same freedom!
If the current TB opposes this and wants to have more ways to say No than to say Yes, then perhaps they would instead consider adopting the following voting menu:
- Yes
- Can't make up my mind, so No
- No
- Hell No
- NFW
- Not until Hell Freezes Over
Jan 18, 2011, 1:04 pm
#2
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But at the end of the day, the results are still the same & the calculations are still the same...Do Not Support is a publicly stated NO, whereas an Abstain isn't a committed No.
FWIW, I don't view it as a conundrum.
FWIW, I don't view it as a conundrum.
Jan 18, 2011, 1:27 pm
#3
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We should be able to find a suitable set of words unless the TB truly wants to obfuscate soft opposition.
Jan 18, 2011, 5:53 pm
#4
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This really shouldn't be this hard.
Jan 18, 2011, 5:59 pm
#5
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Totally agree with this assessment.... with at least two weeks for a vote (not including the time trying to get concensus before hand) there is plenty of time to form an opinion.
I almost want to suggest that you only allow a yes or no vote, no abstain... if you cannot have an opinion.. you don't vote... and if you do that too many times, you are voted off the island.
I almost want to suggest that you only allow a yes or no vote, no abstain... if you cannot have an opinion.. you don't vote... and if you do that too many times, you are voted off the island.
Jan 18, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Jan 18, 2011, 7:18 pm
#7
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Jan 18, 2011, 8:43 pm
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Wholly agree, and as this TalkBoard doesn't seem interested in a reform on this issue I am afraid.it's dead for now.
Jan 18, 2011, 10:08 pm
#9
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Completely and totally agree. ^ One TBer abstained FIVE times in 2010 which is IMHO too many times.
Jan 18, 2011, 10:12 pm
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Jan 19, 2011, 12:09 am
#11
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Add me to the voices struggling to see why you'd need two different ways to say yes or no.
Jan 19, 2011, 4:50 am
#12
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As a TB member, I abstained once that I recall, and I also accidentally missed one vote. And having been someone who abstained, I can actually see the sense of wharvey's suggestion:
Abstention should be a rare occurrence. If you are using it so frequently that you'd risk triggering the 'miss three votes and you are voted off by TB' exclusion, then you aren't really doing your job as a TB member.
But hey, I'm sure most of TB will continue to ignore the members they are supposed to represent on this matter
I almost want to suggest that you only allow a yes or no vote, no abstain... if you cannot have an opinion.. you don't vote... and if you do that too many times, you are voted off the island.
But hey, I'm sure most of TB will continue to ignore the members they are supposed to represent on this matter
Jan 19, 2011, 7:16 am
#14
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FWIW, when I was on the TB I offered to vote for either deleting the Abstain option or not counting it as a No. Neither of those options gained sufficient support.
Jan 19, 2011, 8:53 am
#15
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