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One more thing: TB Term Limits

One more thing: TB Term Limits

 
Old Dec 2, 2011, 7:26 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
Off-topic:

(snip)

On a dif note - given that FT is growing, I thought IB giving $5 Starbucks gift cards to the mods rather than $10 was a bit chintzy.
Frankly, IMHO, it is rather ridiculous for anyone to donate his time to a profit-making corporation. I am certain, of course, that Macy's would love to have volunteer sales help (especially in December), Delta would greatly appreciate having a few hundred people work as FAs for free, and McDonald's would like nothing better than for folks from the neighborhood to clean up each evening.

In fact, these companies wouldn't even complain about giving $25 Starbucks Gift Cards.

I am a mod on a non-travel related forum, run by a business which is smaller than IB, and which has traffic that compares in posting to about the level of the Religious Travel Forum. I am paid $500 a month and have been assured that if the forum ever really takes off my pay will be increased proportionately.

I really could understand it back when Randy owned FT. He was considered a friend by many posters and the forum was not seen (very possibly incorrectly) as a business venture.

Today, it is a completely different story.

Still, if for ego-building, power-tripping, or any other reason people want to give a corporation their labor for free, that is their own decision. It is simply not one I would take.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 8:07 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
Off-topic:



So far there's been speculation by some or 'reports' that the mods received elite status, but I've not seen any concrete evidence presented by those reporting/speculating.

The mods are saying they haven't received elite status, and I believe them. And really, there are approx 90 mods from different parts of the world & different airline/hotel/rental car affiliations. It'd be a little hard to come up with something that would match them all.

If someone is concerned about possible conflicts of interest w/ mods & hotel/airline/car rental companies, I'd recommend they contact the Community Director of FT.
I would suggest you read the posts on this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...companies.html

And it would be nice if Carol would answer PM's on this topic. Mine went ignored.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 8:57 am
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by Dovster
Still, if for ego-building, power-tripping, or any other reason people want to give a corporation their labor for free, that is their own decision. It is simply not one I would take.
And yet I seem to recall you not only volunteering to work for a large for-profit company, but asking about the possibility of doing so again!

Originally Posted by Dovster
I still have the navy blue suit I bought for the October event as well as my white Delta shirt, so I am set up.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 10:19 am
  #64  
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Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer
And it would be nice if Carol would answer PM's on this topic. Mine went ignored.
That, in and of itself, may be a response to your concerns on this matter. @:-)
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 10:35 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
That, in and of itself, may be a response to your concerns on this matter. @:-)
I kind of wish you'd quit saying that. It's highly dismissive and presumes to speak for the CD which I don't believe any of us should presume to do. @:-)
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 10:40 am
  #66  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz
I kind of wish you'd quit saying that. It's highly dismissive and presumes to speak for the CD which I don't believe any of us should presume to do. @:-)
Originally Posted by Spiff
That, in and of itself, may be a response to your concerns on this matter.
Note the bolded words. That's hardly speaking for someone else; it's a hypothesis.

I kind of wish some members would stop using this forum to complain about matters that are not TalkBoard's purview. I guess we can't always get what we want...
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 10:52 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by scoow
And yet I seem to recall you not only volunteering to work for a large for-profit company, but asking about the possibility of doing so again!
Yup, and I had a lot of fun doing it.

Of course, that had a lot to do with the fact that it was for one morning only. I would also enjoy being a cop, working as a hotel receptionist, or being a bartender -- for one day.

If someone wants me to work on a regular basis, however, that is a different story completely.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 11:09 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
That, in and of itself, may be a response to your concerns on this matter. @:-)
Which is another example of the general dismissive attitude of many mods (including you) to the concerns of the FT membership. Shame to see it to extend to the Director.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 11:21 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer
Which is another example of the general dismissive attitude of many mods (including you) to the concerns of the FT membership. Shame to see it to extend to the Director.
You're complaining in the wrong location (once again), and given your attitude, it may be the case (hypothesis) that your PM was ignored for a reason. @:-)

Dismissive of the membership? Hardly.

Dismissive of certain members due to their hostile, negative attitude? Sure.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 11:54 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
You're complaining in the wrong location (once again), and given your attitude, it may be the case (hypothesis) that your PM was ignored for a reason. @:-)

Dismissive of the membership? Hardly.

Dismissive of certain members due to their hostile, negative attitude? Sure.
Moderator Prizes
I believe that a list of moderators that received "door prizes" from companies whose forums they may moderate should be provided to the members of the bulletin board, so that members can be aware of the possible introduction of bias as those moderators perform their duties.

---

Yeah, real hostile.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 1:28 pm
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Dovster
Frankly, IMHO, it is rather ridiculous for anyone to donate his time to a profit-making corporation. I am certain, of course, that Macy's would love to have volunteer sales help (especially in December), Delta would greatly appreciate having a few hundred people work as FAs for free, and McDonald's would like nothing better than for folks from the neighborhood to clean up each evening.

In fact, these companies wouldn't even complain about giving $25 Starbucks Gift Cards.

I am a mod on a non-travel related forum, run by a business which is smaller than IB, and which has traffic that compares in posting to about the level of the Religious Travel Forum. I am paid $500 a month and have been assured that if the forum ever really takes off my pay will be increased proportionately.

I really could understand it back when Randy owned FT. He was considered a friend by many posters and the forum was not seen (very possibly incorrectly) as a business venture.

Today, it is a completely different story.
Interesting. When the subject of Mod compensation came up the other day, I did a mental exercise of what a stipend should be. Figuring an average workload of a few hours per week doing everything from keeping rabble-rousers in check to deleting spambots, $500/month seemed to be the sweet spot if I wanted to address what someone's billable time may be worth. But looking at the number of Mods on a site the size of FT, that would be a big chunk of change. So if N965VJ.com had a BB big enough for as many Mods that FT does, I would elect to have moderation done inhouse by salaried staff.

At least that's what I would do on the 2011 era interweb stating with a clean slate.

But the commercialization of the net was relatively new in 1998 when FT was started, considering Usenet newsgroups had been around for 15 years already. I recall some Usenet veterans in the mid 90s not particularly pleased with efforts to capitalize the sharing of information, so maybe that's the spirit some see in volunteering their time on commercial sites today. Even when AOL and CompuServe were communities unto themselves (remember when a CompuServe address couldn't email an AOL address?), the only compensation moderators of those places saw was something like free access time.
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Old Dec 2, 2011, 2:10 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by N965VJ
Interesting. When the subject of Mod compensation came up the other day, I did a mental exercise of what a stipend should be. Figuring an average workload of a few hours per week doing everything from keeping rabble-rousers in check to deleting spambots, $500/month seemed to be the sweet spot if I wanted to address what someone's billable time may be worth. But looking at the number of Mods on a site the size of FT, that would be a big chunk of change. So if N965VJ.com had a BB big enough for as many Mods that FT does, I would elect to have moderation done inhouse by salaried staff.

At least that's what I would do on the 2011 era interweb stating with a clean slate.

But the commercialization of the net was relatively new in 1998 when FT was started, considering Usenet newsgroups had been around for 15 years already. I recall some Usenet veterans in the mid 90s not particularly pleased with efforts to capitalize the sharing of information, so maybe that's the spirit some see in volunteering their time on commercial sites today. Even when AOL and CompuServe were communities unto themselves (remember when a CompuServe address couldn't email an AOL address?), the only compensation moderators of those places saw was something like free access time.
Apparently that was Randy, Tommy, Gary and Ed's initial decision when they started MilePoint: go with internal staff moderation only (all the better to keep their related non-profit and commercial ventures front and center, doncha know).

Of course they quickly realized that it was dumb to not use free labor and went to the MP Guide approach, who are NOT (repeat NOT!!!) moderators, but still kind of are:

What tools will I have at my disposal?
Because Guides are not disciplinary, the administrative tool set required and provided is very limited. You will have access to the following administrative tools:
* You will have the ability to Stick and Unstick threads. As we move forward with the implementation of the milepoint wiki, this particular tool will likely become less relevant and needed.
* You will have the ability to assist members by editing posts made in the forums. Cases when this might be used include editing posts that contain personally identifying information, or posts that contain fully re-printed articles, which can be edited to shorten and provide a proper link to the source.
* You will also have the ability to edit posts made to a member's profile.
* You will have access to the Spam Cleaner
In any case, I would say the volunteer FT moderator corps are here to stay and generally do a great job. Should there be term limits so that mods spend some time as a regular poster every so often? I'm on record as yes. Because just like TB members, mods have a different FT experience and relative perception than regular joe posters.
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Old Dec 3, 2011, 11:43 pm
  #73  
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I think Moderators and TB Members in a sense have earned their dues.. by demoting, or having the hard working members become regular members again, is a downgrade to the hard work, and volunteer efforts demonstrated..

I have no opinion, but to leave things status quo until a logical solution is figured out.. Volunteers are the backbone of FlyerTalk.. and much of the valuable information presented has no profit tied to it, even though FlyerTalk is a paid advertised website.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 12:39 am
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
Volunteers are the backbone of FlyerTalk.. and much of the valuable information presented has no profit tied to it, even though FlyerTalk is a paid advertised website.
I strongly disagree. Volunteers (be they mods or TB members) would be of absolutely no value if it were not for the thousands of members who post on a regular basis. They are the ones who provide FT's worth and are its real backbone.

Moreover, the posts they make do, indeed, have profit tied to them. They are to FT what tourist sites are to Venice -- without them, nobody would come and IB would have an empty "city" and no profits at all.

That being said, I would be the last to deny that mods do, in fact, work and should be paid for their labor. In fact, I will get just about everybody upset by making the following statements:

1. By working for free, the mods are cheapening themselves. They are, in essence, saying, "I don't get any money and that is exactly what I am worth."

2. When you and I subject our writing to the scrutiny, review, and possibly disciplinary action of unpaid volunteers, we are saying that what we post is not valuable enough to warrant handling by professionals.

3. When IB does not pay moderators, it is announcing that it does not care enough about the content of FT to pay the cost of having impartial professionals determine its quality.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 4:45 am
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Dovster

1. By working for free, the mods are cheapening themselves. They are, in essence, saying, "I don't get any money and that is exactly what I am worth."

2. When you and I subject our writing to the scrutiny, review, and possibly disciplinary action of unpaid volunteers, we are saying that what we post is not valuable enough to warrant handling by professionals.

3. When IB does not pay moderators, it is announcing that it does not care enough about the content of FT to pay the cost of having impartial professionals determine its quality.
Personally I volunteer in a number of areas - not just Flyertalk. I sit as an (unpaid) School Governor, (unpaid) Justice of the Peace, (unpaid) Assessor for Chartered Membership of the British Computer Society. I personally don't feel that any of your views, about being unpaid somehow making the experience wrong, to be true.
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