Randy Petersen

This question was submitted by member Dovster:

"For all candidates, what is your opinion concerning the establishment of a new forum? Does it have to prove before-hand that it will have sufficient posts to make it viable or if it seems like a good idea to you would you be willing to give it a try?

Incumbent candidates please state how you voted on the Budget Travel Forum and the two polls on the Religious Travel Forum and give your reasons for voting as you did."

John C

Without a doubt, Flyertalk already borders on being unwieldy. I have no statistics to support my assumptions, but I would be willing to bet most visitors limit themselves to no more than 5 or 6 forums on a regular basis. That said, we serve a diverse community and I believe there is nothing wrong with having sub-communities within the greater body.

The challenge when considering new forums is to determine if they would be active enough to truly build a community of users. If not it can be disruptive to deal with unused forums, regardless of whether they be collapsed or left to rot. That said, I believe the goal should be to expand usage and to provide users with areas where they can discuss topics of interest related to the general theme. I would rather err in being too accepting of new directions rather than in being too strict.

It is really a matter of complexity when you boil it down. Do you believe you attract a community that values and can deal with complexity and frequent change or do you believe you have a community that values simplicity? I happen to believe that frequent travelers are sophisticated consumers of information. Giving them more options is likely the right choice, even if it means there will be some occasional false starts and more erratic navigation. Where possible, one would prefer to have some simple navigation that directs new members to the right place (and I am not sure the main page is especially effective at doing this in its current state) but I would not limit the scope of the site based on a user profile that is likely in the significant minority of overall usage.

So, in direct response to the question, if a new forum seems like a good idea I would generally be inclined to support it.

civicmon

My thoughts are this: If there are requests for it, go for it. Open it on a trial basis - if it works cool, if not, then we can at least say "well, we tried.."

There shouldn't be a lenghty debate as long as the requestor is serious.

There are two reasons behind this:

1. Lack of a forum makes people less inclined to ask about the topic. Take Budget travel topics for example. What would have been an appropriate place for questions about LCCs and Hostels? TravelBuzz? There were only a handful of posts regarding hostels in there, now with the BT forum, there are a ton of them.

2. The policy now is 'proven demand' and that simply means that if there seems to be enough traffic... In some cases, that's fair enough and it'll be evident, but tying it back to #1, how do we know there isn't the potential for a lively subforum when a subforum doesn't exist for it?

Looking at those two right there, it seems logical to at least -try- a subforum out. If it doesn't work, so be it, but if it does.... the rest is history.

Buzzard533

I would tend to agree with John C that most members probably monitor no more than 5 or 6 forums, I track four right now myself. If FT is becoming too unwieldy (technically), then maybe we are using the wrong software.

I would err to the side of creating the new forum and letting it prove itself. If the software can support the growth we should provide what the membership demands and validate the usage after a set time limit.

NOLAnwGOLD

The beauty of the web is how flexible and limitless it can be. It's a place for the world to meet and share info no matter how esoteric or specific the interest.

FT has to adapt as times and member interest changes to stay relevant and active.

In this light, I'm all for openning new forums as there are requests and suitable to the general mission of sharing travel information, experiences and a place to meet people of similar interests.

With the ability to track usage, we can test different new forums and merge or close current forums as interest wanes.

I say if you want it, give it a go and see how it works....

John C

Actually, allow me to clarify my comment. I assume the technology underpinnings of the site are not impacted by the number of forums, though that is merely an assumption. I haven't ever looked at (or cared about honestly) the technology running the site.

I was referring instead to the usability of the site and the intuitiveness of the interface. The Airline Programs are by far the most commonly visited forums, yet they are one level deep in the menus. It almost feels like going to a department store and having to walk by the jewelry in order to get to women's clothes most shoppers want. (I don't have a brilliant quick-fix solution, but it feels cumbersome). If I am in the Delta forum and want to talk about a Round-The-World award, I need to click up to the main menu, click over to Global Airline Alliances, and then select SkyTeam. Should that really be necessary in order to get to an intricately related forum? Would that even occur to a new user? In both cases, the answer is "nope".

A new user has over 40 choices for his or her initial navigation, many of which lead to even more choices. If you just want to ask about Air France, you have to know to go to Airline Programs and then know that their program is called Flying Blue because if you look for Air France, you won't find it.

So, why are Traveling with Children and GLBT and Women Travelers and Disability Travel on the front page instead of being under a "Lifestyle" section of some type? And why are Luxury Hotels on the front page and not under Hotels? What qualifies for front page? It certainly isn't based on usage. Maybe there is a rule, but I can't figure it out.

When I say FT is unwieldy, I am referring to the navigation and the user experience. From a technology perspective, I suspect things are generally fine. But this isn't a site that is immediately intuitive to a new user. Personally, I believe we can make some improvements but because of the breadth of the community and topics covered I suspect it will always be somewhat complex no matter what is done.

Buzzard533

Excellent point. This is the type of feedback I feel we need to solicit to make FT more user friendly to all users, not just those familiar with the hierarchy.

gleff

The number of forums and the subjects chosen matter a great deal, and we have to strike a balance. Not every idea should be tried, because failed forums hurt Flyertalk and hurt members trying to get questions answered. But successful forums are a boon to both Flyertalk and members.

Here's a bit of a (dull) riff on the issues involved.

Members focus on the forums that match their interests, having a helpful forum structure assists FTers find the posts that are interesting to them and having posts matched with their subject area helps to find information when searching, too.

It's very possible to have too few forums. If FT had only one forum, or even only 10, it would be truly unwieldly. It would be impossible to find information, you'd have to scroll through page after page of new posts that aren't interesting to you. And if you post a question, odds are people who know the answer won't even see it and your thread will get pushed back far beyond where most members will check.

It's very possible to have too many forums, or forums with subjects that don't draw traffic and posts, and that's bad for all of Flyertalk. Forums that don't receive very many posts won't be visited often. And since they aren't visited often, they won't receive very many posts. The key is generating critical mass and Flyertalk has done an amazing job reaching critical mass. I can come back time and again during the same day to most forums and see something new, and perhaps have something to add to the discussion as a result.

So I don't want to add forums that will be moribund. I do want to add forums that will be active.

This isn't a zero-sum game, the best new forums will increase the total number of posts rather than just shuffling existing posts around (though that can be good for search reasons).

Unvisited forums will decrease the total number of posts and will mean that real member questions go unanswered. If we set up a forum for specific questions, it doesn't get much traffic, but my question has to go there the people who know the answer probably won't see it.. and I'll wind up sitting in coach, next to the lav, with no recline.

Sometimes it's better for a member to be able to ask a question in TravelBuzz than in the Helsinki Aleutian Islander Summertime Resort Travel forum.

That said, I'm much more inclined to try new forums than I used to be. Recently the TalkBoard undertook a restructuring of forums and lesser-used forums have been folded into other areas. So I don't think there's as much risk in forums failing ... We just wind up where we were before the restructing, and that was a pretty good place.

(This is part of the explanation for why I first voted against a Religious Travel forum when it was first introduced, and why I voted in favor of it just last week... Post-restructuring.)

~Matthew~

New forums are definitly needed when new programs are put in place in the marketplace or when specific new interest seem to be apparent and discussions are rampant across the board. The beauty of Internet discussion boards is that they CAN be fluid and accomodate what's "new and hot" in the industry or otherwise.

I definitly think that a system of suggestion and voting is certainly the way to go, and if a particular forum is not successful, it can always be archived or merged.

Cholula

I'm on record as supporting and encouraging requests from members for additional forums that will develop a loyal following and attract more members to FlyerTalk.
What that loyal following shall be, i.e., number of posts, number of posters, time frame for test of the new forum, etc., remains to be debated and agreed upon.
But of equal importance is another issue on which I'm campaigning. Any new forums and also the existing FlyerTalk forums need to be organized in a user-friendly, easily accessible manner for both new and experienced users.
FlyerTalk is a dynamic and vibrant Internet bulletin board that has become the go-to source for anything travel related. It's of critical importance that we work together to get the wealth of information on FlyerTalk organized in an efficient and usable manner.

bhatnasx

As long as the forum is travel-related and relevant to the Flyertalk community & there's not already a place for the type of discussion that the forum would involve, I'd be willing to try a new forum out - even on a temporary basis. TravelBuzz, to me, is not always the answer.

mbstone

I agree that there are many forums I visit rarely. I don't think there should be inflexible rules. For example, today I flew on Allegiant Air (G4), a Part 141 airline that serves maybe 25 cities but doesn't have a FF program -- or a forum here. Would that go under Miles and Points?

I didn't vote on either the Budget Travel issue nor the Religious Travel issue. I would have voted to have a single forum called Budget Travel and Travel Bidding, or maybe Travel Cheapness (so near and dear to my heart). I would have voted against establishing a Religious Travel forum, because IMHO such a forum, however well-intentioned, would/will quickly devolve into flame wars.

missydarlin

I'm not sure that I could say it any better than gleff just did.

When it comes to actual miles and points programs, the growth is rather automatic. Once there is an established program that looks like its going to be around, a forum is created.

When it comes to the topics of non mile/points related travel, we really have to consider in which direction we want FT to grow. We have a niche in the same way BFT has a niche, and Fodors.com has a niche. Our dilemna is how to serve the needs of our membership without trying to become one of those other boards.

I'm more of the mindset that forums should grow out of already existing interest. If none of the 80,000 members has felt a need to post a question about travel with service animals as of yet, then I'm not sure how creating a specific forum for that is necessarily a positive move. On the other hand, if we are seeing a number of threads in travelbuzz on Disney or Six Flags, or Vegan resorts then I'm certainly open to giving those threads a new, more consolidated home.

I can't agree with the "lets just open whatever new forum is asked for and see how it goes" ideology... simply because of the behind the scenes work that goes into reorganizing and in some cases editing those posts when the forum doesn't make it. For example.. one of the forums was titled Destination Fresno, and I were to title a thread "In town overnight, what do I do?". If that forum is later closed, every thread not only have to be moved to its new home, but would need to be checked to make sure Fresno put in the title so it becomes searchable in its new forum. Otherwise, no one searching for things to do in Fresno is ever going to find the thread. Thats a lot of work to put the admin staff through, to please a few people who thought "this is a cool idea" It also creates an inconsistent experience for the poster who utilizes the forum, and goes back to look at one of their threads, only to have no idea where it is.

VPescado

I find myself so much in agreement with gleff and MissyDarlin, that I am not going to waste anyones time adding to what they have said already.

I hope no one takes this as a cop out, but their positions are clearly the result of experience and solid thinking. ^

stimpy

I'm on record for this election as saying I'm for more internationalization. I think it is not only important but vital that we gain more non-US members. To that end, I'm in favor of adding more forums to encourage non-US members to participate.

I'm not a fan of feasability studies. I am a "just do it" guy. We can go back and tweak things later as needed. So if enough of us agree to start a new forum, let's do it and see where the chips fall.