RogerD408

This has gotten twisted just a little bit.

If you do a day rate at one property and a night at another, then yes, you should get two stays and one night. I believe the Lurker's have supported such an event. However, overlapping stays do not get credit with the exception of up to three rooms at the same property paid by the member.

I see the "additional rules" to be examples of what would cause qualification. Trying to come up with every possible scenario would be tough. Proving you slept in a room, not possible. Being in the room over midnight, not required. All too often when you present an issue to a CSR, they jump to excuses they feel justify the error than evaluate the situation and determine if an error truely existed.

Now to be clear, I do believe two rooms booked in different properties are outside the rules as I read them. Yes, there are exceptions that need consideration. Yes, some properties may mess up and cause it to post. Should SPG have cause to review the account I would expect SPG to take them away. I have read reports where some have had the situation show up and the property with the lesser credit was the only one that posted and it took some time to get SPG to change things up.

d'Yquem

Not at all. This was the point of the thread. No-one is talking about day rates.

Please show me anything within the T&Cs supporting your interpretation.

RogerD408

I was going off your use of "stay". Day rates do count a stays, just not nights. Mixing the terms does make a difference.

Re-read http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27095257-post39.html where it states "4B.2. An "Eligible Stay" is one or more consecutive nights at the same Participating Property, ".

My read on this is one, and only one, property per night. We may have to agree to disagree. The final decision is SPG's and they have made it clear, unless there is a clear reason, only one will count. Wanting to hop hotels on the same night is not one they accept. As I've said upthread, you can't be in two places at once, so two half-nights still equals one night credit. Does it really matter which property credits that night?

Dr. HFH

Yes, but that's a stretch. "Physically present" -- does that include walking into the lobby for 60 seconds and then walking out again? Yes, you "stayed" there for 60 seconds; but do you really feel that that entitles you to a credit for having "stayed" (i.e., remained for some period of time) in the hotel?


Exactly the point I keep making which you have yet to answer at all, let alone convincingly. The rules are worded in such a way that they are a positive grant, -- you can do only what the rules say you can do and nothing more. You're straining to change the rules into ones which permit you to do anything not specifically prohibited. The rules very clearly say, and repeatedly so, "This is what you get; and these are the circumstances under which you get it."

The rules specifically do not say, "You can have anything you want unless these rules say that you can't."


I disagree with your first statement here, that Starwood's interpretation is not borne out by the contractual provisions. After that, however, I agree with you. People who think that they're entitled to more than the rules permit and don't get it always have the option of walking. Apparently an insufficient number do that to motivate Starwood to adopt the interpretation you are advancing.


Yeah, this part is just bizarre.

Oxon Flyer

FWIW, we've had reports in the past where SPG members were denied credit because they checked in after midnight or checked out before midnight, so the 'must be here on the stroke of midnight' may well be more a Starwood internal guideline/rule rather than something invented at the whim of your Ambassador.

Okto

That's exactly what I did a few years ago during a mattress run, fully expecting to get night and stay credit (which I did). I wasn't, however, "staying" anywhere else that night, if somehow that changes the argument.

Dr. HFH

Yes, that's the crux of it, -- you can only "stay" in one Starwood hotel on any given night.

d'Yquem

My point is that there is nothing preventing two concurrent stays.

Herb687

Exactly. Dr. HFH's hypothetical is a patently stupid one and not something which anyone on this thread has argued.

Hello, Straw Man!

None of us dispute that actually checking in to a hotel and occupying the room is required to earn SPG points, night and stay credit.

But there is absolutely nothing in the plain text T&Cs prohibiting concurrent otherwise eligible stays. It is quite possible to "stay" in different hotels on the same night and spend measurable time in both rooms.

Apparently Starfraud is using unwritten "rules", undisclosed and unavailable to members, behind the scenes in order to deny people night and stay credit for concurrent stays on the same night. Obviously, it is Starfraud's perogative to interpret its own rules but that doesn't mean they can't be found to be in violation of them were someone to actually litigate.

And Starfraud's conduct here seems to go beyond a matter of mere interpretation of T&Cs. They seem to be just making sheet up.

Unwritten rules and bogus "be in your room at midnight" type bullsh made up by CSRs are just one of the reasons I'm happy I have realized that Starfraud is a joke, loyalty is for chumps, and it's best to just be a free agent and pick the best hotel or the best price than to rely on scummy (one-way) loyalty schemes.


The Starfraud cheerleaders on this thread won't be able to do that any more than the idiot CSR you spoke to on the phone was able to provide written documentation of all the rules she cited.

pageboy

Okay, argumentative ones.

I have an overlapping stay coming in a couple of weeks.

1) Monday- Thursday in Texas
2) Wednesday- Friday in Florida

My flight leaves out roughly 8pm on Wednesday night. Just thought I'd hang on to the Texas room Wednesday night because it was cheap. For the weekly total, will this be a 4 night stay or a 5 night stay?

Dr. HFH

Neither of you has responded substantively to my point that the rules are permissive, not restrictive. You can do only that which the rules specifically permit; and you will earn only what the rules specifically provide that you will earn.

Your argument seems to be that you can do anything not specifically prohibited by the rules. I suggest to you that that is not the case. There are lots of things which are not prohibited by the rules; but that doesn't mean that you are entitled to do them.


Your designation of the program as "Starfraud" suggests that it's possible that you have lost your objectivity regarding SPG.


Go for it!! Care to make a friendly wager on the outcome?


Denigrating people who disagree with you is unlikely to enhance respect for your thoughts and ideas, and equally unlikely to persuade people to give serious consideration to your opinions. OTOH, you may not care.

jibi

Don't check out of the first hotel. See if all nights post. If so, don't say anything. If not, present your legitimate case (extremely late checkout on Wednesday) and see what they have to say. Report back your findings here.

jibi

Well said. Alas, this will not resonate with the intended audience, of course.

d'Yquem

Is there a reason you made this personal? I suggest if you have nothing positive to add to the debate, you don't type.

RogerD408

Nor is there anything allowing it. SPG has a history of not allowing such an event except in certain cases reviewed by SPG. Given SPG is the final say in such disputes we are left with no further recourse. Just like we each have to decide if a particular program works for us, we will each have our opinion on how things should be handled. I believe credit for multiple properties on the same night is outside the rules and should not be allowed. You're welcome to believe what you like. The only one that counts here is SPG's interpretation. I haven't seen anything that should convince them otherwise.