PSA Beware of sharing your info with Lurkers and making negative posts in the forum
May 22, 2016, 9:18 am
#31
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I must call your comments misguided, as well.
If the OP shares info with a Lurker to get satisfaction on a specific incident or issue, the OP clearly has waived any pretense for anonymity. Anyone who doesn't understand that is...lacking, to put it politely.
This OP is simply balling about nonsense. This isn't about anonymity. This is about exacting revenge about SPG. The OP is railing at the moon now. The OP is entitled to rail at the moon, of course...but we are entitled to call that out, too.
If the OP shares info with a Lurker to get satisfaction on a specific incident or issue, the OP clearly has waived any pretense for anonymity. Anyone who doesn't understand that is...lacking, to put it politely.
This OP is simply balling about nonsense. This isn't about anonymity. This is about exacting revenge about SPG. The OP is railing at the moon now. The OP is entitled to rail at the moon, of course...but we are entitled to call that out, too.
There is also a case to be made that it is beneficial to both sides of this unwinnable debate to understand what information is maintained through our interactions with the Lurkers, how that information will be used when interfacing with corporate or individual properties, what PII data will be shared beyond that direct communication with the Lurkers, etc. This should not be left to misguided assumptions and expectations.
Here's some "from the horse's mouth" information from a previous thread (emphasis mine):
Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker II
Hi all,
Let me clarify over here. I have been following up with comments from members and guests who have posted over here. In fact, quite a few members have received my PM with regards to their comments on the properties they have stayed at. These comments have been forwarded to the properties as well. That is the main reason I have asked for permission to release personal information such as email contacts so that the management of the property can reach the member to address the issues involved directly.
There are also situations where members have problems with either their stay or promotions. It would be really efficient if we assist the member immediately once we have their account details at our fingertips and not delay the process by waiting for the other party to respond via PM.
Both William and myself do not share personal details of members over here to other parties. But we do hold the same database to the members here so that whenever one party is not around, the other is able to assist as well. There are, situations in which a member has declared that he would not like to share the details with the other lurker and we do indicate that.
For the OP, if the instruction has been passed to William and I was not notified by any chance, I apologize.
Like I mention, we do not reveal any personal information to other non-related parties.
Let me clarify over here. I have been following up with comments from members and guests who have posted over here. In fact, quite a few members have received my PM with regards to their comments on the properties they have stayed at. These comments have been forwarded to the properties as well. That is the main reason I have asked for permission to release personal information such as email contacts so that the management of the property can reach the member to address the issues involved directly.
There are also situations where members have problems with either their stay or promotions. It would be really efficient if we assist the member immediately once we have their account details at our fingertips and not delay the process by waiting for the other party to respond via PM.
Both William and myself do not share personal details of members over here to other parties. But we do hold the same database to the members here so that whenever one party is not around, the other is able to assist as well. There are, situations in which a member has declared that he would not like to share the details with the other lurker and we do indicate that.
For the OP, if the instruction has been passed to William and I was not notified by any chance, I apologize.
Like I mention, we do not reveal any personal information to other non-related parties.
Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker II
Hi all,
I do understand the OP's concern and the situation can be managed as well.
I am receiving messages from members who would not like to be linked to their UserIDs in the forum.
I would have to declare that both of us do not reveal your real identity beneath your Usernames to anybody else, not even our colleagues or any members here.
I do understand the OP's concern and the situation can be managed as well.
I am receiving messages from members who would not like to be linked to their UserIDs in the forum.
I would have to declare that both of us do not reveal your real identity beneath your Usernames to anybody else, not even our colleagues or any members here.
May 22, 2016, 11:06 am
#32
Join Date: Oct 2000
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May 22, 2016, 11:26 am
#33
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,134
At the time of the above quotes, the Lurkers had been involved with this forum for more than 8 years. Jae was even on here pre-Lurkers (the William era), so the program was already quite established and mature at the time SL2 made his comments. Perhaps they are keeping and sharing information in a different manner 8 years later? Sure. The point is that they kept a database, they likely still keep a database, they disclose certain information, they maintain privacy when requested or when the situation calls for it, etc. etc. The other point is that it would be great to know the rules of engagement before they are contacted. Otherwise, we are left to our assumptions and we'll have "public service announcement" posts and the same privacy vs. transparency debate over and over.
May 22, 2016, 12:04 pm
#34
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Regarding this situation, the Lurkers' involvement with this community, etc., what has changed? As it was mentioned 8 years ago, it would be great if there were some published information about privacy and expectations of privacy as it relates to interfacing with the Lurkers (and other industry professionals) on this forum.
At the time of the above quotes, the Lurkers had been involved with this forum for more than 8 years. Jae was even on here pre-Lurkers (the William era), so the program was already quite established and mature at the time SL2 made his comments. Perhaps they are keeping and sharing information in a different manner 8 years later? Sure. The point is that they kept a database, they likely still keep a database, they disclose certain information, they maintain privacy when requested or when the situation calls for it, etc. etc. The other point is that it would be great to know the rules of engagement before they are contacted. Otherwise, we are left to our assumptions and we'll have "public service announcement" posts and the same privacy vs. transparency debate over and over.
At the time of the above quotes, the Lurkers had been involved with this forum for more than 8 years. Jae was even on here pre-Lurkers (the William era), so the program was already quite established and mature at the time SL2 made his comments. Perhaps they are keeping and sharing information in a different manner 8 years later? Sure. The point is that they kept a database, they likely still keep a database, they disclose certain information, they maintain privacy when requested or when the situation calls for it, etc. etc. The other point is that it would be great to know the rules of engagement before they are contacted. Otherwise, we are left to our assumptions and we'll have "public service announcement" posts and the same privacy vs. transparency debate over and over.
May 22, 2016, 1:05 pm
#35
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Posts: 5,783
I'm 100% with jibi. Well put - Lurkers rule, but I think transparency would be beneficial both ways - us shy ones would like to know whether we can remain semi-anonymouous while communicating with Lurkers or not. Simple as that.
May 22, 2016, 2:03 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,134
Then it appears you're helping me make this point. When the most definitive and official information is 8 years old, then perhaps someone should step up and provide a definitive FAQ, T&C, disclaimer, whatever you want to call it. Privacy is a really important concept. It is also a legal principle in many countries. Simply making the assumption that our PII data is fair use - even if volunteered - is a bad approach to this topic by consumers.
May 23, 2016, 10:30 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
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OP, I have provided feedback on this forum (both negative and positive) and my info was provided directly via my Ambassador and sometimes via Lurkers to GMs for follow up. I've stayed at those hotels afterwards and found I was treated better, not worse. I don't think you need to worry about being "marked negatively".
As for your info being sent to a GM for follow up, I think it is in good form. I imagine you would be happy if the GM did something over and above CS wise - but what truly bothers you is your worry that you've been "marked".
If you don't want your details provided it is on you to state that fact in your initial contact with the lurkers. Otherwise it seems to me that it would be good CS form to have a GM follow up with the customer re his issue directly.
As for your info being sent to a GM for follow up, I think it is in good form. I imagine you would be happy if the GM did something over and above CS wise - but what truly bothers you is your worry that you've been "marked".
If you don't want your details provided it is on you to state that fact in your initial contact with the lurkers. Otherwise it seems to me that it would be good CS form to have a GM follow up with the customer re his issue directly.
May 23, 2016, 2:42 pm
#38
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
Having said that, the Lurkers have always been nothing but professional and helpful; one of the main reasons I am so big on Starwood.
But, with rare exceptions, there is NO anonymity on FT.
Cheers,
May 23, 2016, 5:47 pm
#39
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May 23, 2016, 7:06 pm
#40
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I've never assumed the Lurkers acted as some kind of anonymizer when dealing with properties, and I don't recall that they ever claimed to.
When I have an negative opinion of a service provider, I have no issues providing my name along with my opinion. If they react negatively to accurate feedback, I just know not to return.
I'm not really going to "beware" of doing either going forward.
When I have an negative opinion of a service provider, I have no issues providing my name along with my opinion. If they react negatively to accurate feedback, I just know not to return.
I'm not really going to "beware" of doing either going forward.
May 23, 2016, 7:57 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,748
OP seems to have decided to leave the thread, so probably no answers will be forthcoming.
Still, if you are here, it could be good if you clarified:
So in the above posts you first say that you provided your RL info to a Lurker in January about an issue. You never elaborate on what that issue was. Then in a subsequent post you mention it is about the lounge not serving alcoholic beverages. This is one of the points raised in your post about the Sheraton Anaheim - but in that post you mention you just checked in and discovered this issue and that post was dated 12 May.
So which is it? Jan or May?
I personally feel this is very important.
1. If your "complaint" to the Lurker where you provided your RL info was in May, about the Sheraton Anaheim and it's new no-alcohol policy, then I feel there is every reason for them to reveal your RL info to the hotel management.
2. If your initial "complaint" was in January about a totally different issue and a totally different hotel, then that means this has happened:
- you made snide remarks about the new GM of Sheraton Anaheim and yes they are quite unflattering remarks
- said GM then happened to read the FT thread and read said remarks and was expectedly, unhappy about them
- said GM then contacted the Lurkers to obtain your RL info
- and at this point, it appears the Lurker(s) released your RL info to him
Is this what happened? If it was, then I personally feel you have every right to be upset and that a breach of privacy occurred.
Frankly, it is akin to writing a comment on TripAdvisor and then the hotel asking TripAdvisor to release your information to them and TripAdvisor doing so.
Some of you have said that OP should "own" his comments and basically be responsible for what he said. While I agree with that and would stand by any comments I personally posted, I would also say that FT being what it is, OP had a right to expect anonymity and OP cannot be faulted for that. Let them put up a disclaimer that info provided can be released to any and all interested parties and then he has no ground to stand on. But until then...
What next? If during the frequent spats that occur on FT one user decides he wants the other user's RL info, he/she is allowed to go to the Lurkers to get it?
Still, if you are here, it could be good if you clarified:
So in the above posts you first say that you provided your RL info to a Lurker in January about an issue. You never elaborate on what that issue was. Then in a subsequent post you mention it is about the lounge not serving alcoholic beverages. This is one of the points raised in your post about the Sheraton Anaheim - but in that post you mention you just checked in and discovered this issue and that post was dated 12 May.
So which is it? Jan or May?
I personally feel this is very important.
1. If your "complaint" to the Lurker where you provided your RL info was in May, about the Sheraton Anaheim and it's new no-alcohol policy, then I feel there is every reason for them to reveal your RL info to the hotel management.
2. If your initial "complaint" was in January about a totally different issue and a totally different hotel, then that means this has happened:
- you made snide remarks about the new GM of Sheraton Anaheim and yes they are quite unflattering remarks
they have a new GM who is into cost cutting. He came from the Sheraton Agoura Hills which I swore off a long time ago due to service and price. Considering the reviews on that place, it's only a matter of time before he runs this property into the ground. Why this company hired him to run this hotel is beyond me.
- said GM then contacted the Lurkers to obtain your RL info
- and at this point, it appears the Lurker(s) released your RL info to him
Is this what happened? If it was, then I personally feel you have every right to be upset and that a breach of privacy occurred.
Frankly, it is akin to writing a comment on TripAdvisor and then the hotel asking TripAdvisor to release your information to them and TripAdvisor doing so.
Some of you have said that OP should "own" his comments and basically be responsible for what he said. While I agree with that and would stand by any comments I personally posted, I would also say that FT being what it is, OP had a right to expect anonymity and OP cannot be faulted for that. Let them put up a disclaimer that info provided can be released to any and all interested parties and then he has no ground to stand on. But until then...
What next? If during the frequent spats that occur on FT one user decides he wants the other user's RL info, he/she is allowed to go to the Lurkers to get it?
May 25, 2016, 10:59 pm
#42
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A unique relationship
Many years ago I bitterly complained (and snarked) about spg.com, even offering to do a 'what's wrong' presentation to the team in charge of it. Shortly after, I received a PM from William asking if I was serious and if I was, if the head of their web team could contact me.
Next thing I know, I'm on a conference call with 10+ people from Starwood thanking me for my loyalty and patiently listening to the feedback I prepared for them.
That was the start of a unique relationship; and getting to know people by their first names at SPG/Starwood. Of course it's still a company, but I'm continually amazed at how much these folks care and how passionate (and competitive) they are about making our experiences better.
The Lurkers are amazing facilitators. So while the OP may not like the tone of the message he got from one GM at one property, I encourage him to keep up with the dialogue and build relationships. The feedback we give (and get) can benefit all of us who are fans of SPG.
Next thing I know, I'm on a conference call with 10+ people from Starwood thanking me for my loyalty and patiently listening to the feedback I prepared for them.
That was the start of a unique relationship; and getting to know people by their first names at SPG/Starwood. Of course it's still a company, but I'm continually amazed at how much these folks care and how passionate (and competitive) they are about making our experiences better.
The Lurkers are amazing facilitators. So while the OP may not like the tone of the message he got from one GM at one property, I encourage him to keep up with the dialogue and build relationships. The feedback we give (and get) can benefit all of us who are fans of SPG.
May 25, 2016, 11:17 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: IHG Spire, Marriott
Posts: 574
That sounds like great opportunity. Seems like we should do one again sometime soon. Some pages are so crap I run an extension to overlay their css.
May 26, 2016, 12:21 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,016
Many years ago I bitterly complained (and snarked) about spg.com, even offering to do a 'what's wrong' presentation to the team in charge of it. Shortly after, I received a PM from William asking if I was serious and if I was, if the head of their web team could contact me.
Next thing I know, I'm on a conference call with 10+ people from Starwood thanking me for my loyalty and patiently listening to the feedback I prepared for them.
That was the start of a unique relationship; and getting to know people by their first names at SPG/Starwood. Of course it's still a company, but I'm continually amazed at how much these folks care and how passionate (and competitive) they are about making our experiences better.
The Lurkers are amazing facilitators. So while the OP may not like the tone of the message he got from one GM at one property, I encourage him to keep up with the dialogue and build relationships. The feedback we give (and get) can benefit all of us who are fans of SPG.
Next thing I know, I'm on a conference call with 10+ people from Starwood thanking me for my loyalty and patiently listening to the feedback I prepared for them.
That was the start of a unique relationship; and getting to know people by their first names at SPG/Starwood. Of course it's still a company, but I'm continually amazed at how much these folks care and how passionate (and competitive) they are about making our experiences better.
The Lurkers are amazing facilitators. So while the OP may not like the tone of the message he got from one GM at one property, I encourage him to keep up with the dialogue and build relationships. The feedback we give (and get) can benefit all of us who are fans of SPG.
May 26, 2016, 1:04 pm
#45
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
My concern is here that I trusted the Lurker with my info and they took it upon themselves to include my info in an email to corporate which then was forwarded to the GM. The problem here was it was done without my consent and no messages from the Lurkers until I called them out on it today. They apologized but this frankly puts a bad taste in my mouth with not only the Lurkers and SPG but the property in general.
Do keep in mind, there was plenty of information in your post in the other thread for the GM to find out exactly who you are, without the Lurkers help.