Creepy Starwood Stalkers-Edina MN Westin

 
Old May 26, 2012, 10:08 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by 1Kwoman
Agreed. That is exactly the argument I used with Andrew who called me from "customer service desk in Ontario." He offered no apology and really seemed to support the position of the GM and hotel. He did say he saw both sides "now that he had spoken to me" because I shared some viewpoints the hotel GM did not. I am not satisfied with the response. I would have appreciated an "I'm sorry" but I'm not going to ask for that. I did tell him I had posted on FT and encouraged him to follow the thread, which he thought he would to gain a sightline into the way guests felt about the issue. So Andrew, when a Platinum guest who has stayed 461 nights in Starwood hotels since 1999---more than a year and a half of her life--tells you that she is offended, it might be a good idea to at least offer an apology. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me. It might buy you a lifetime customer or it might piss me off enough to move my business to Marriott and bring more than a few FTers with me.
1KW
And if its as male guest with only a few nights stay then no apology is needed? Both are absurd! I would suggest that instead of spending 461 nights on the road and posting personal information (which will now exist forever in cyberspace, regardless of changes made to the information), this person take one night off work and instead take a course as to how the internet operates and what it means to post personal information there. Knowing how cyberspace operates is not rocket science .... there have been warnings about personal postings for years and years. Starwood admits how it uses the internet ... what about all those companies and individuals that are also googling you but you are not aware of?
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:46 am
  #62  
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It's called wealth screening...

I'm amazed FTers are surprised at this. Quite a few companies will research their wealthy, prominent or high value clients. It significantly enhances their ability to sell/service you.

If you have a dedicated relationship manager at a financial institution, I can guarantee they have conducted 'wealth screening.' I believe in the US due to a lack of serious privacy laws, software exists to conduct this. The company generally has your personal details already, but they generally research your family make up including spouse and children's names, what school and university you attended, company directorships, what charitable or arts organisations you donate to as well. If they can't get the information, they will pay a researcher to do it. I can speak on authority that charitable organisations also do this for their major donors. If they conduct this properly, you will never ever know that it has occurred.

I knew this practice existed with *wood because some Ws in South East Asia will put your Facebook profile photo in a frame ahead of your arrival. I know Qantas researchers First class pax to arm First hosts with similar intelligence.

Creepy when you find out, yes, but it's also a widely used business practice. See http://www.wealthx.com/products/wealth-screening/ and https://www.blackbaud.com/analytics/...ndicators.aspx for more.
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Old May 27, 2012, 4:43 am
  #63  
 
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“Wealth screening” is how non-profits share prospect lists. If you gave tens of thousands to one non-profit and ten bucks to another, then the latter might hit you up for more money. (It's mostly pointless, because wealthy individuals normally use a private foundation or a donor-advised fund to make donations.) (The Wealth-X link is the guy who does those Forbes lists reselling that research.) Starwood shares lists of frequent travelers with airlines. That's normal, but very different from what happened here.

What you said about financial institutions is true for non-Americans under 31 USC 5318(i)(3)(B). Private-banking accounts belonging to “any immediate family member or close associate of a senior foreign political figure” require “enhanced scrutiny”. The law requires your private banker (or relationship manager) to verify that your family and friends aren't senior politicians. This has nothing to do with Starwood or anything that's not a bank.

What Starwood is doing—downloading customers' social media pages even after being asked not to—is totally abnormal for an American business. (Even the Department of Homeland Security got sued for doing it.)

Originally Posted by cruiser9999
take a course as to how the internet operates
(I work with people who could teach that course.) The important thing for Starwood to remember: when you run a search and follow a link to a site, (generally) that site can log your search terms and where you are connecting from. Searching for something can be just as public as posting something.

Originally Posted by cruiser9999
what about all those companies and individuals that are also googling you but you are not aware of?
Just like Starwood, they'll get caught and their reputations will reflect their actions.

Originally Posted by m0hamed
some Ws in South East Asia will put your Facebook profile photo in a frame ahead of your arrival.
They do what!? (What do you mean by a frame? A window on the clerk's computer, or displayed to all the guests, or something else?)


Clearly, if Starwood doesn't think it's doing anything creepy, they should openly announce that they are downloading every guest's social networking pages, instead of hiding this information in 5(viii) of the fine print and behind names like “Global Personalization”. And they should explain how to opt out, even if that means moving to Marriott.

Last edited by Moriens; May 27, 2012 at 4:57 am
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Old May 27, 2012, 5:00 am
  #64  
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Wealth screening is mining your database for wealthy individuals (including those who give via trusts and foundations). It isn't necessarily swapping lists, and any NGO seeking major gifts wouldn't share the data they have obtained.

My point on NGOs and companies including financial institutions and *wood and Hyatt actively research their most frequent guests or high net worth clients/customers, regardless of nationality. Any relationship manager working for high net worth individuals would conduct such research, and consultancy firms exist with the sole purpose of providing several page profiles of individuals.

I know the GM of a property I frequent the most had conducted some research as he casually started discussing the most recent production an Opera company I make gifts to. I had never mentioned my association with them in the past.

As for the photos, the W hotel in Bali puts twitter and/or Facebook photos in a photo frame in your hotel room when you check in. See this fellow FT'ers post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16098755-post15.html

We arrived at our villa and found my Facebook profile picture in a nice little photo frame along with a personal note from one of the W Insiders! I thought this was totally trippy! I’d liked their Facebook page to keep tabs on the property and posted on it a few times, and they must have put 2 and 2 together. These Insiders really live up to their job title. Our welcome amenity was a mad DIY cocktail set which we thought was pretty cool.

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Old May 27, 2012, 2:38 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by yosithezet
Now that you have explicitly provided Starwood with the link between you FT username and your offline identity as a guest, I hope you don't find it creepy when you post praise or a complaint an Starwood contacts you off FT to address the issues in your post.
Nope, I have no problem with that at all.
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Old May 27, 2012, 6:11 pm
  #66  
 
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"O brave new world, That has such people in't!"
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Old May 27, 2012, 6:34 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by Bravada04
Why would anyone feel this is creepy ? Your name and the information YOU put there is for the world to see
Now that someone has decided to look it up you feel violated. Please.
I'm not a creepy guy Honestly but I myself have looked up some individuals etc that I have possibly met or something else. Everybody can get a little nosy, everyone. It's actually quite interesting.
+1. The OP is obviously not too savvy about privacy settings if she is SO concerned about protecting her private life but then makes her LinkedIn profile public for all to see. All she had to do was change the LinkedIn privacy setting to "Make my public profile visible to no one," but she obviously didn't do that. I have nothing to hide from anybody, but I make my FB and LinkedIn profiles private so that uninvited strangers don't snoop.
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Old May 27, 2012, 9:37 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by DCBob
+1. The OP is obviously not too savvy about privacy settings if she is SO concerned about protecting her private life but then makes her LinkedIn profile public for all to see. All she had to do was change the LinkedIn privacy setting to "Make my public profile visible to no one," but she obviously didn't do that. I have nothing to hide from anybody, but I make my FB and LinkedIn profiles private so that uninvited strangers don't snoop.
So how do potential business connections find you? (Since that is the point of LinkedIn and a private profile mostly defeats that purpose.)

And how does the OP thinking that it's creepy that a hotel is doing recon work on her equate to her being SO concerned about protecting her private life?

I'm with the OP. I suppose a hotel is free to look me up, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate. Doesn't mean I'm going to hamper my professional career to make sure they can't though.

They just aren't equal thoughts.
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Old May 27, 2012, 11:15 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by DCBob
+1. The OP is obviously not too savvy about privacy settings if she is SO concerned about protecting her private life but then makes her LinkedIn profile public for all to see. All she had to do was change the LinkedIn privacy setting to "Make my public profile visible to no one," but she obviously didn't do that. I have nothing to hide from anybody, but I make my FB and LinkedIn profiles private so that uninvited strangers don't snoop.
Don't assume that just because you make your profiles private that they can't be hacked, and possibly not even intentionally. There have been a number of instances wherein personal information inadvertently became available and if I recall correctly, there was something with Facebook in this regard a few years ago. As well, there also may be a 'back door' to supposedly private info, once again not necessarily intentional but rather due to computer programming errors. The only safe way is to NOT post it if you don't want it to become public.
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Old May 28, 2012, 2:52 am
  #70  
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I've just had my first encounter w/ an individual that apparently works in the W Sales Dept. Wanted to connect w/ me on LinkedIn. Obviously, I said no. This thread is re-enforcing my decision to leave social media. (And yes, my privacy settings are on high.)
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Old May 28, 2012, 3:07 am
  #71  
 
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This definitely borders upon abuse of social media for commercial profit/unfair transaction advantage.

I cannot help but make a judgement that for a hotel to make calls in advance on rate and pricing issues demonstrates that the hotel were trying to see if they can gouge extra cash from customers.

For one, in order to get a corporate rate, one needs to know certain details and the booking details which are not in publicised.
Secondly, the complainant has a point when they point out that a hotel deliberately makes calls in advance to advise on carding someone. Its mildly threatening.
thirdly, the hotel makes a point of checking personal details of customers.

fourthly, the hotel openly admits it does such a thing and informs the customer after the fact and advises its intention which are questionable.

Pointing out defensive mechanisms does not negate the actions of the hotel which has a higher burden of responsibility in ensuring it does not act unethically or possibly illegal.

In a few jurisdictions, such actions taken by an individual has been prosecuted under criminal law.

If the complainant has the contact details of the people he/she spoke to and kept all records, i would advise against releasing any details.

I would be waiting to see if any statements from the relevant corporate entities are released.
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Old May 28, 2012, 7:23 am
  #72  
 
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I too would feel that is crossing the line between personalized service and infringing your privacy. Starwood needs to offer this "service" as an OPT-IN for those that want it.
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Old May 28, 2012, 7:33 am
  #73  
 
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Back in the 60's/70's when my parents would travel on vacations the hotels would just come out and ask them if they were married. One hotel in Miami even asked them if they had any negroes in their trunk (they were hippies from NJ, it was during the '68 Rep. convention if I remember my family lore correctly).

So, while it would be nice to think that personal information gathering would always be for such lovely reasons as to "personalize" the hotel experience with some sort of special ammenity I can see where this can also go terribly wrong. People are people, with prejudice and sometimes convictions that might not match our own. I think what people do for a living, what charities they support, what their hobbies and interests are as well as their marital status are of no concern during a hotel visit. I wouldn't be impressed by a photo of me from Facebook in a frame when I get to my room - I know what I look like. Make sure there is no mold in the caulk around the tub and have my towels smelling like lavender and leave a clip for me to close the drapes with, especially when I'm on a ground floor, and now I'm impressed.. and trust me, none of that info is on LinkedIn or Facebook.
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Old May 28, 2012, 1:00 pm
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by holtju2
That is one of the reason, why I have never given my personal information to the Lurkers here, when they have requested it, as all this is linked together.
Actually they already make that link without even asking. One lurker contradicted a post I made, having contacted the hotel and discussed my reservation using my name (which is admittedly easy to discern from my handle). Don't be under any illusion; SPG already 'stalks' us all to suit its own purposes and its policy allows such behaviour. My main concern is whether the conclusions it draws from such inflation-gathering are fair and accurate.
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Old May 28, 2012, 1:23 pm
  #75  
 
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I'm surprised so many people are surprised hotels are looking up linkedin profiles - another area where it is prevalent is Las Vegas - even if you are a rated player, they have automated programs that score each guest prior to arrival - where your room is, how long you wait for your dinner reservation and where you sit, targeted mailings, etc - mostly driven on how you are scored on social networks.
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