Head Injury caused by Sheraton - Hotel not accepting liability
Jul 9, 2010, 9:52 am
#31
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Stop talking to them, and lawyer up immediately.
Jul 9, 2010, 10:18 am
#32
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Let's hope that bell service was not outsourced to a small Chinese subcontractor...
Before you hire a lawfirm, try to get a good estimate about potential compensation in China and especially legal fees. The legal fees will very likely overshadow the amount of compensation that could be awarded.
On a sidenote, let me point out that I know of several dozen cases where mostly European companies did not even have a chance of winning something at a Chinese court, although ( at least based on European standards ) they had a pretty obvious case.
Before you hire a lawfirm, try to get a good estimate about potential compensation in China and especially legal fees. The legal fees will very likely overshadow the amount of compensation that could be awarded.
On a sidenote, let me point out that I know of several dozen cases where mostly European companies did not even have a chance of winning something at a Chinese court, although ( at least based on European standards ) they had a pretty obvious case.
Jul 9, 2010, 10:27 am
#33
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Some of the possibly-pertinent SPG.com / SPG / Starwood-related T&Cs:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/corpor...onditions.html
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/corpor...onditions.html
YOU AGREE THAT STARWOOD IS NOT LIABLE FOR THE ACTS, ERRORS, OMISSIONS, REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES, BREACHES OR NEGLIGENCE OF ANY SUCH THIRD PARTY SUPPLIERS OR FOR ANY PERSONAL INJURIES, DEATH, PROPERTY DAMAGE, OR OTHER DAMAGES OR EXPENSES RESULTING FROM THE USE OF SUCH SUPPLIERS. STARWOOD HAS NO LIABILITY AND WILL NOT MAKE REFUNDS FOR ANY DELAY, CANCELLATION, OVERBOOKING OR OTHER CAUSES BEYOND STARWOOD'S DIRECT CONTROL, AND STARWOOD HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ADDITIONAL EXPENSES RESULTING THEREFROM.
(Sorry for Starwood's YELLING!)
Jul 9, 2010, 10:29 am
#34
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I don't think a Starwood property is a "third party", so that paragraph would not apply.
Also, don't limit yourself to a Chinese lawsuit. You can sue Starwood in the US (though probably not the property). And find out who owns the hotel - they're liable as well.
Also, don't limit yourself to a Chinese lawsuit. You can sue Starwood in the US (though probably not the property). And find out who owns the hotel - they're liable as well.
Last edited by mahasamatman; Jul 9, 2010 at 10:35 am
Jul 9, 2010, 10:41 am
#35
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Let's hope that bell service was not outsourced to a small Chinese subcontractor...
Before you hire a lawfirm, try to get a good estimate about potential compensation in China and especially legal fees. The legal fees will very likely overshadow the amount of compensation that could be awarded.
On a sidenote, let me point out that I know of several dozen cases where mostly European companies did not even have a chance of winning something at a Chinese court, although ( at least based on European standards ) they had a pretty obvious case.
Before you hire a lawfirm, try to get a good estimate about potential compensation in China and especially legal fees. The legal fees will very likely overshadow the amount of compensation that could be awarded.
On a sidenote, let me point out that I know of several dozen cases where mostly European companies did not even have a chance of winning something at a Chinese court, although ( at least based on European standards ) they had a pretty obvious case.
Jul 9, 2010, 10:44 am
#36
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"In order to offer the services related to this Site, and fulfill reservations or orders users place on this Site, Starwood may use third party suppliers. You acknowledge and agree that, the carriers, hotels and other suppliers providing travel or other services for Starwood may be independent contractors, and not agents or employees of Starwood."
Just because Starwood makes such statements, doesn't mean that they are enforceable. But that's where a lawyer could help.
IMO, whether the OP (or his girlfriend) should get a lawyer may depend on how much she would be willing to settle for.
IANAL.
Jul 9, 2010, 10:48 am
#37
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Jul 9, 2010, 11:01 am
#38
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Sorry to hear about your GF's injury. I'm sure it was pretty traumatic for you guys. I'm not a legal expert, but do have some business dealings in China.
Things are done a bit differently there, of course. You may be just wasting your time trying to sue in the US. If they'll take your case on a contingency basis, you can certainly give it a shot. Otherwise you'll spend thousands of dollars and end up with squat.
Things are done a bit differently there, of course. You may be just wasting your time trying to sue in the US. If they'll take your case on a contingency basis, you can certainly give it a shot. Otherwise you'll spend thousands of dollars and end up with squat.
Jul 9, 2010, 11:40 am
#39
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I'd consult a plastic surgeon today and ask his opinion as to what needs to be done to minimize scarring. I'd explain that my insurance didn't cover it, but you would be asking a third party for payment, and that I needed a quote. I'd present that quote to the hotel for payment before scheduling surgery (presuming I couldn't afford it.)
If the Chinese don't routinely recognize "pain and suffering" then you won't get anything beyond the medical bills. They either will or won't pay for plastic surgery, and once you get their answer you can decide what to do.
Also, your insurance stinks if they won't allow you to consult a plastic surgeon for that type of wound. It may be too late to prevent scarring.
If the Chinese don't routinely recognize "pain and suffering" then you won't get anything beyond the medical bills. They either will or won't pay for plastic surgery, and once you get their answer you can decide what to do.
Also, your insurance stinks if they won't allow you to consult a plastic surgeon for that type of wound. It may be too late to prevent scarring.
Jul 9, 2010, 11:47 am
#40
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Hi, sorry to hear about your friend's injury. I am a lawyer, so here's my 2˘ (or whatever you think my comments are worth 
).
1. As a previous poster noted, the fact that there is a disclaimer doesn't mean that the disclaimer is legally valid or binding.
2. The Chinese legal system is very different from the one in the US.
3. If your friend lives in the U.S., that may give her rights to take legal action where she lives. Her rights there may well be greater than her rights in China.
4. If the reservation was made through a U.S. travel agent, that, too, may give her some rights in the U.S.
5. Personally, I think that your friend should at least meet and have an initial chat with a local lawyer. Many U.S. lawyers will not charge for such an initial/informational meeting.
6. If you want to continue to try to avoid lawyers, I'd have an offline conversation with William or Thyetus to see if they are able to assist at all, or what they might recommend. If nothing else, they might be able to assist by facilitating communications and ensuring that you are following the proper procedures.
7. Stop posting here. You can assume that anything you post here will eventually be used against you or your friend if this ever gets to court, or even in negotiations. Even though you may think your posts innocuous, you just never know how things are going to develop, and posts which once might have appeared to be innocuous may end up damaging your friend's negotiation or litigation position.
).1. As a previous poster noted, the fact that there is a disclaimer doesn't mean that the disclaimer is legally valid or binding.
2. The Chinese legal system is very different from the one in the US.
3. If your friend lives in the U.S., that may give her rights to take legal action where she lives. Her rights there may well be greater than her rights in China.
4. If the reservation was made through a U.S. travel agent, that, too, may give her some rights in the U.S.
5. Personally, I think that your friend should at least meet and have an initial chat with a local lawyer. Many U.S. lawyers will not charge for such an initial/informational meeting.
6. If you want to continue to try to avoid lawyers, I'd have an offline conversation with William or Thyetus to see if they are able to assist at all, or what they might recommend. If nothing else, they might be able to assist by facilitating communications and ensuring that you are following the proper procedures.
7. Stop posting here. You can assume that anything you post here will eventually be used against you or your friend if this ever gets to court, or even in negotiations. Even though you may think your posts innocuous, you just never know how things are going to develop, and posts which once might have appeared to be innocuous may end up damaging your friend's negotiation or litigation position.
Jul 9, 2010, 1:22 pm
#41
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For a superficial cut? Thats more than the average salary for a U.S. resident, and probably much more than that for a Chinese worker. I was starting to feel for your girlfriend a little up until that post, now all I see is greed.
Last edited by CNWO4LIFE; Jul 9, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Jul 9, 2010, 1:47 pm
#42
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I too was injured at a *wood property...
Shouldn't it be Starwood/Sheraton's responsibility to at least try to resolve the situation with of loyal guest without requiring legal action?!
The hotel first proposed a $1,000USD settlement which I found to be almost insulting since it wouldn't even cover basic medical fees let alone plastic surgery and pain and suffering.
I refused the $1,000 offer and started communicating directly with the hotel GM. I proposed that they just assume liability and cover future medical expenses related to treating the injury, he said that the hotel's insurance company probably wouldn't go for that and suggested that I propose a settlement amount...
I was quite horrified to hear the the hotel was a franchise of Starwood and that they would have their own local chinese insurance company deal with this…
The hotel first proposed a $1,000USD settlement which I found to be almost insulting since it wouldn't even cover basic medical fees let alone plastic surgery and pain and suffering.
I refused the $1,000 offer and started communicating directly with the hotel GM. I proposed that they just assume liability and cover future medical expenses related to treating the injury, he said that the hotel's insurance company probably wouldn't go for that and suggested that I propose a settlement amount...
I was quite horrified to hear the the hotel was a franchise of Starwood and that they would have their own local chinese insurance company deal with this…
....he also explained hotels have umbrella policies that cover up to a certain amount that they can issue without too much effort.
...anything over the amount the umbrella policy covered would automatically require legal action on your part.
....long story short...I spoke with the hotel management about what the lawyer said...they made what I considered a very generous offer of settlement (including covering my medical costs) and it all fell under this umbrella ceiling.
...the entire matter was resolved in less than a week, and I have continued to stay there since as I felt the management could not have been more professional both during my injury and getting me to the hospital as well as their offer to compensate me.
...so my advice...speak to the management ...let them know you know they have an umbrella policy and ask them what they can offer under the limits of that policy.
...you will then have a good idea and can decide from there.
...however if you want more compensation then you will have to pursue a lawsuit as that is the company policy.
...that was my experience anyways I hope that helps.
Jul 9, 2010, 1:48 pm
#43
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Jul 9, 2010, 1:54 pm
#44
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Sure. What can the OP expect in a country where the average monthly income is in the range of 150 USD? All claims need to be scaled dramatically down compared to the (insane) US system. Seriously: Assuming that you have medical coverage by your own insurance I would pick up to 50k offer, negotiate 100k and agree somewhere in the middle. For what I have seen on the picture, you might get 10l USD in my country. And thats it. What other damage quantifiable damage do you see?
Jul 9, 2010, 1:58 pm
#45
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The properties are independently owned and managed. The incident happened in China and has nothing to do with the US. So what the link to Starwood Corp.??
