doughpat

Hi everyone-

This site is borderline overwhelming, and forgive me for asking questions that are probably answered elsewhere.

Twice a year I fly CGK-NRT-SEA (or sometimes finishing in PDX). I can only afford economy class (that won't change).

I hear these magical stories of people getting bumped into business/first class because they are in the frequent flyer program. I've now been an ANA Frequent Flyer for about 3 years, and have yet to see any kind of benefit from my loyalty. It seems like the points/miles 'expire' before I accrue enough of them to be useful. In fact, it is mostly a pain in the neck, as the Indonesian ANA website is horrible to use. However, I've "kept the faith" and just bought another ticket.

So I suppose I am asking this: Am I doing something wrong? What do I need to do to actually get some benefit from consistently flying with ANA? At this point I have accured ~8800 miles and ~11,000 premium points.

I have a nasty feeling that basically I am not a "frequent-enough" flyer for ANA to bother with. If that's the case, it would be good to know, as it will free me from this misplaced loyalty (I hate the limited/non-existent recline on ANA's new planes...).

Mwenenzi

doughpat Welcome to the forum

Generally passengers without status do not to get upgrades for free, and then only on some airlines. Airlines from the USA are more generous, With non USA airlines expect to travel in class you pay for,. Other times you can to use miles or another instrument to upgrade. But then the cheapest fares may not be eligible for upgrades.

With 2 flights per year I would be going for the best fare/schedule and consider any ff miles as a bonus (that may or may not be able to used). Miles expiry does vary. USA airlines ffp's tend to me more generous.

UA is often the best for collecting ff miles in Star Alliance, but everyone is different.

Look at these threads
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/infor...help-here.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...help-here.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star-...post-here.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/skyte...i-sign-up.html

doughpat

Darn. Was afraid of that--but thank you for the reply.

A follow-up question: My wife also travels 2x/year (same route). Would it be wise (or even possible?) to consider putting both of our flights onto the same FF program? That would, of course, double the number of miles that would accrue.

It appears that there is a minimum of 12,000 miles that are required before I see any mention of benefits kicking in.

nwflyboy

As a general rule, FF programs are tied to an individual, and only a couple programs allow pooling of miles among family members (AFAIK, ANA isn't one of them) - sharing miles is very rare (well, doing it legally is rare…).

Miles/points in most programs do expire - only a couple programs' points don't. Fortunately, in most programs, it's super easy to ensure your miles don't expire - at least for those of us in the USA. As a resident of Indonesia (I think) this may be less easy, but the bottom line is: miles & points are valuable. Unless you don't care about losing them, you need to learn about the program's expiration policies, and pay attention to what would happen to them if you just forget about them.

For most programs, you can keep miles from expiring with some (any) "activity" in your account - take a flight to earn miles, maybe spend miles (many programs offer multiple ways to spend miles, eg buy a magazine subscription), transfer miles in to your account from some other program, etc. The easiest way (for many of us) is to have a credit card that earns points in that program, and just be sure to use it once in a while. I am not deeply familiar with ANA's program rules (or what options there are for non-US residents), so you will need to do a little research into this.

It boils down to this: the programs have specific rules. Unless you are OK with losing your points, you need to pro-actively learn the rules and do what you can to ensure you get the full value of your points. In most cases, it's not that hard, and it's very much worth it.

Hope that helps a bit.

doughpat

That is very helpful, yes, thank you.

I guess I need to sit down with the details of the program and really pour over them. It seems the key will be (attempting to) prevent expiry of my miles, since I accrue them relatively slowly.

I will do some searching for credit cards that contribute to either ANA or Star Alliance.

nwflyboy

Star Alliance is very useful. I've never paid for an ANA flight (actually, I rarely pay for flights at all...) but have enjoyed ANA's business class seats across the Pacific - and am looking forward to doing so again next week (using miles earned in United's FF program).

Some of this stuff is complicated, but not all of it. Much of it is readily available and easily understood, once you go looking. Most people don't bother to. Most people think FF miles are useless. Let them go on thinking that.

While it's true that your head could explode if you tried to learn and memorize all the details of every FF program, that's not really necessary. You have some ANA miles now, the most critical things you need to know about their program should take about 3 minutes to find on their website. I'd start with:
- Mileage expiration policy
- What kinds of activities will keep your points from expiring
- Which of those options are available to you

Secure your miles ASAP, they're valuable and you don't want to lose them if you can help it.

doughpat

Roger that, newflyboy--and thanks for the encouragement. I was on the edge of thinking that FF programs weren't worthwhile, but I believe that if I am diligent about keeping hold of my miles, it is probably worthwhile.

I've been doing some digging and it sounds like I should open the infamous Chase Sapphire card. My only question now is whether I can get a better package if I go to the branch in person, versus filling out the app online. Off to dig some more...

slawecki

GETTING "BUMPED" in usA domestic is common,. usually the domestic F is filled with FFers. getting bumped on a tpac or tatl excluding special circumstances is pretty much nonexistent.

i have flown probably 50 UA tatL"s in C. sometimes even with ff status. i have never been "bumped" up to first, even though i ask at checkin, and F is completely unoccupied(other than UA employees).

i had the miles, the wait list, and the charm to get moved from C to F last week IAD-tokyo. and back. the plane has the space. no joy. sat in those C class seats that collect so many complaints. i thought the seats and the service were great.

lcpteck

One thing unfortunate for us leisure travelers is the usual cheap economy flights on does not earn 100% mileage even on their own FFP (with the exception of a few airlines). And since ANA miles expires 3 years (I think), you probably won't even have enough to redeem for anything.

We face the similar issue here in Singapore for SQ. It's actually easier now for US flyers to accumulate miles on SQ than us here in SIN (either by credit card spend or flying).

I also have to think about which FFP to join for my once a year long haul flight (cheap fares) to the US (IAD).

nwflyboy

Oh it is most definitely worthwhile. I look at it this way: the benefits are available, but require at least a small investment of your time. Most people are ignorant, too lazy, disinterested, or have been convinced by their own failure to utilize their miles that the programs all suck and it's not worth worrying about. That's good, I hope the majority of people continue to feel that way.

Lately, due to the proliferation of blogs (which I view as ruining this opportunity as too many people look for quick 'n easy exploits), there are a LOT more people competing for a shrinking number of seats. So in many respects things are getting worse. Still, there are opportunities.

If (as it sounds) you have the options of getting US credit cards, then you will be in a much more advantageous position. There are (obviously) several very good Chase cards, including the Sapphire. One benefit of the points these cards earn is that they can be used to book ANA flights. If I were you, I would be patient, and plan a long-term strategy for cards and other things. You might investigate an ANA credit card. I know they have one, buit it never gets any attention from the blogs, because bloggers are mercenaries and only promote the cards that earn them fat commissions - please do NOT use any credit card links from a blogger, that only rewards them for unethical behavior - and you can always find the best deals without using a blog link. The ANA card may be a bit of a dud, but might be useful if only to keep your ANA points from expiring 9check the details, I don't know them). But you can certainly wrack up enough points using other cards to book on ANA. My and the wife are heading to Japan next week on that nice 787 in business class thanks to United (Star Alliance) miles. You can do it. Be patient and be smart, don't get caught up in the frenzy you will see here on FT and (especially) on the blogs. And don't let your miles expire if you can help it.

armagebedar

As this thread is rather quickly moving away from discussion of ANA's mileage program and towards a comparison of multiple Star Alliance programs, I shall move this thread to the Star Alliance forum. Please follow it there.

Regards,
armagebedar
ANA forum moderator

doughpat

Hi Armagebedar-

I'm happy to keep the discussion focused on ANA's program. I've already got miles accumulated with them, plus their route is generally the lowest price--so no need to discuss other carriers here. ANA is part of Star Alliance, of course, so some discussion of the program at large seems relevant enough to me?

malmostoso

If I am not mistaken TK's program has a "family" option where miles can be pooled. You will be able to collect NK's miles there. However, when using another airline's FFP you have to be careful that the booking class of your ticket actually earns you miles.

It seems to me that TK's earning chart is very similar to NK's, so Miles and Smiles might be a good program for you.
If your target are upgrades, though, you will probably go through your whole life without ever seeing one. I have a few hundred thousand miles under my belt and it has never happened to me.

ORDnHKG

That is plain wrong ! It is only the US base programs and very few non-US ones allow that !

Most programs outside of US, miles will expire no matter you have activity in your account or not, and NH is one of them, all miles expire in 3 years from the date you earned !