catbox9

Not sure if I should put this in the African forum or over here.

I've got a trip to Spain coming up to Spain and I would like to get a quick taste of Morocco and see Gibraltar on the way. That leads me to numerous questions...

1. Is there any way to wake up somewhere in Andalusia, see Gibraltar, and then end up in Casablanca or Marrakesh for the night?
2. If I have 7 days in Spain starting in Barcelona (not including the Spain-Gibraltar-Morocco day) how should I divide that up? I am probably more interested in Andalusia than Barcelona and I have previously been to Madrid/Toledo. My main must-sees are Barcelona's highlights (Las Ramblas, Sagrada Familia), the Alhambra (Granada), Cathedral of Seville (Seville), and the mosque of Cordoba (Cordoba).
3. Would it be better to stay in one Andalusian city and do day trips to the others from there or stay 1 night in each?
3a. If I stayed in one Andalusian city, which one? I'm thinking Seville since it's pretty cheap to fly there from BCN.
4. What is the more interesting Moroccan city, Casablanca, Marrakesh, or other? Is 2 days in one better than splitting time between 2?

LupineChemist

1. Look at Royal Air Maroc from AGP to CMN. According to wiki there is GIB to RAK, but I don't know for sure.
2/3. I would stay in Sevilla - Córdoba - Granada in that order. Maybe fly into AGP and hire a car there so you can return it at the same city for the Morocco flight. You can definitely make it to Gibraltar within an hour or two from Granada. Be sure to leave a car on the Spanish side and just walk across the border control.
4. Only ever been to Marrakech, so I can't answer the rest.

catbox9

That might actually be a good plan. There's plenty of BCN-AGP flights that leave in the early evening so I can have the day in BCN and then get to Andalusia at night.

How is driving in Spain? I've been to Spain but didn't really pay much attention to it. I don't know why, but I've always been afraid to drive in foreign countries (other than Canada). I speak Spanish so that isn't really an issue.

Getting from Gibraltar to Morocco still seems a bit complicated. Once I get to Tangier there appears to be an overnight train to Marrakesh which seems like a good idea. Now I just have to get to Tangier from Gibraltar...

IAN-UK

From a general tourism perspective Marrakech has much more to offer than Casablanca. It's also a gateway for an excursion into the mountains and to the delightful coastal town of Essaouira.

In fact you might consider Essaouira as your target city, rather than a day-trip from Marrakech. It has oodles of charm, a much more relaxed pace than Marrakech, an active fishing port, and a beach. There's even a music festival (I think in June). Bus between Marrakech and Essa takes between 2 and 3 hours: you can of course charter a grand taxi for something like ten times the bus-fare.

www.oncf.ma will give more information on transport in Morocco.

David-A

How are you travelling about? By hire car or public transport?
Will you be wanting to travel about in Morocco? And similarly by hire car (the same one - are you planning to cross by ferry) or public transport?

There are new Royal Air Maroc operated flights between GIB and Marrakesh (RAK), but they operated by RAM on behalf of a Gibraltar based travel company - so you need to book with the Gibraltar company, but bookings can be made flight only.

Schedule is every Sunday:
Depart RAK 1600 Arrive GIB 1845
Depart GIB 1935 Arrive RAK 2025

And every other Thursday:
Depart RAK 0925 Arrive GIB 1210
Depart GIB 1300 Arrive RAK 1350

So, depending upon day of the week you were planning to travel, if it was Sunday that would give you plenty of time.

http://www.yourflight.gi/fares/
http://www.yourflight.gi/contact/

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In terms of seeing Gibraltar and then travelling to Morocco the same day, that depends uponL
- how you were planning to travel about,
- how you want to cross the Straight, and where you would need to get to.

Give yourself the day in Gibraltar, arriving mid-morning and leaving 5-7pm, etc. Potentially having eaten first.

But your transport methods will affect where you plan to get to that night.

In terms of crossing the straight, you have the options to fly or ferry.
For flying, there is GIB-RAK (Marrakech) as mentioned above, AGP (Malaga) to various and more frequent services (but none to RAK!), or Seville or Jerez airports which are smaller than AGP.
For ferry, while there is a weekend (fridays and late sundays) service from GIB to Tangiers(Med) port, there are also more services from Algeciras on the opposite side of the bay of Gibraltar to Morocco, and plenty of 'fast ferry' serivces from Tarifa - fast ferry.All of these would leave you in norther moroco though, you would then need to travel on south.

catbox9

Here's basically what I want to do. I would start the day in either Seville or Malaga and then head to Gibraltar. From there I think a good option is either the AGP-CMN-RAK flight (but it leaves at 1605) or get to Tangier and take the overnight train to RAK (leaves at 2100). This travel day is likely going to be October 9 (a Thursday).

So my new questions are...

1. If I rent a car, is the drive from Malaga to Gibraltar and back terribly difficult? I've never driven outside the US/Canada and while I know how to drive a manual transmission, I haven't really done it in quite some time.
2. If I leave Malaga super early (5AM or so) could I drive to Gibraltar and be back in Malaga for a 4PM flight and still have a decent experience in Gibraltar?
3. If I elect to instead take the overnight train to RAK, how to I get to Tangier on a Thursday starting from Gibraltar?

IAN-UK

Re-reading your original post, it seems you are trying to cram an awful lot into a short trip. I'd have thought Barcelona + the ambitious swing through Andalucia is quite enough for 7 days, with Gibraltar an easy add-on option if you have the time.

Tagging on an extra couple of days in Morocco could tie you into some awkward timings.

Morocco is a large country with an awful lot to offer, but it's probably safe to say it's a more challenging environment than Spain: you might be better off planning a separate visit at some later stage.



As for driving in Spain, if you are nervous about a manual gear-box then search for a company offering reasonably priced automatics: they do exist! Kayak is a god starting point to get the feel of the range offered, and the prices.

catbox9

Right now I have only farelocked my airfare through United so I might stay 2 more days since it's the same price which would probably help.


I think I can handle a more challenging environment. I don't have a lot of European travel experience, but I've been to places like Cambodia, Vietnam, and China which I would think are about the same level of difficulty as Morocco (I've also been to Easter Island which is challenging in the sense of its isolation).

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If I have to cut 1+ cities, how would everyone rank the following cities:
Barcelona
Cordoba
Gibraltar
Granada
Marrakesh
Seville
Stockholm*

*Note: I'm flying USA-ARN rather than USA-BCN as this was much, much cheaper. I was planning on 1 day in Stockhom since it seems like a shame to go there and then not see anything. If I arrive at ARN at 0700 surely I could manage something interesting that day? I could fly ARN-BCN the day I arrive at ARN to allow for 1 extra day in Spain.

LupineChemist

Honestly, Gibraltar isn't probably worth it on it's own right. The rock is kind of interesting and it is a sort of geographical oddity, but in the end it's basically just a tax-have port. The Spanish side is pretty bleak as well and there are several large oil refineries around there.

IAN-UK

I'm sure you can handle a challenging environment, but what I was getting at was that, for better or for worse, things in Morocco don't always run as expected, or to time. So if you have a fixed departure date and time from Spain to the US, you might not want to be making a the journey to the airport from Morocco.

CaptainMiles

RyanAir flies SVQ-RMK, sometimes for ridiculously low prices. If you can do it Morocco and back with little luggage, it may be something to consider. And to better resist the carpet salesman's pressure, just keep factoring in the RyanAir luggage cost into the carpet price when you are hearing his sales pitch.

catbox9

I also share that concern. My situation is slightly more complicated (for better or worse) as I'm actually returning to the USA via ARN. My intention was to take a LH flight from CMN to ARN and be in Sweden with 20 hours or so to spare before my Europe-USA flight.

Even though my trip is Spain/Morocco focuses, I gave myself 1 day on each side in Sweden just in case something happens causing a slight delay. I know that doesn't really give me a chance to see Sweden but I'll get some of the highlights of Stockholm and if it wasn't for the $500 r/t fare from LAX-ARN, I would have flown LAX-BCN but that was like $1500 the same dates.

I just looked at their website and unfortunately this does not appear to be a daily flight and the date I need is not one of the dates they fly

The other possibility I suppose would be to do BCN-RAK an then go back to Andalusia. I'll have to play with the dates and see if that is better.

David-A

I'd disagree. If you are in the area, which it sounds like the OP is going to be I would say it was unquestionably worth a visit. While it is only three and half square miles, for such a land area, with a lot of it inclined terrain, it has a heck of a lot for 3.5 sq miles.

You have the upper rock itself, the caves and truly unique tunnel defences. Then you have the just the nature of the place itself, a unique accident of history. A natural trading port for hundreds of years. Plus you have views of 2 continents, three countries, one sea and one ocean.

Please don't believe the Spanish government invented nonsense.

It is true that the immediate area is bleak, there is a oil refinery there. But go further around the coast to Tarifa (where you might catch the ferry) for that rare thing in spain - unspoilt coast line!

David-A

What time is your return flight to the USA leave ARN?

Sorting out a last minute shorthaul flight is one thing, missing a longhaul flight can be a pain! So, if you are pushed for time then build in a day city visit on the way back - at least you are in the right place for the flight if delayed getting back to ARN.

David-A

If pushed for time, and following on from what I said about your Stockholm day being a saftey net on the way back, then I would divide these into groups - just from looking at a map.

You obviously begin and end in ARN (regardless of whether you spend a day there or whether it is at the begining or the end).

Barcelona is the next place on its own, but it is also a well connected airport, with lots of airlines.

Similarly, Marrakesh is geographically on its own. Unless you are wanting to travel about in Morocco or travel on the train to get to/from there, then you are going to want to fly in or out, and you are certainly going to want to fly one way (either in or out) from there to avoid backtracking.

The rest (Cordoba, Gibraltar, Granada, Seville) are in the southern iberian mainland. Following on from the previous point, I would certainly ditch one of your Spanish cities before Gibraltar, just for variety - this is a trip of variety!

So you have got the following:

A (ARN - begin and end)
B (BCN)
C (Cordoba, Gibraltar, Granada, Seville) - with Malaga airport as a possible entry/exit point
D (Marrakesh)

It is a question of how you string these together. And whether you skip any.

Within C, some of it would be possible by train, but for others you would be better with a car.