Drinks. Southwest: On a 629-mile flight, one drink plus a pass-through by the flight attendents asking for refills. Alteratively, ask for a full can of soda and you get it without the dirty look from the flight attendents. United: Ask for a full can of soda and the FA gives you the feeling that you alone are causing United to lose money.
On a 200 mile flight on WN you hear "Would you like something to drink after takeoff?"
On a legacy carrier you hear "Due to the short duration of this flight we will be unable to provide beverage service."
When the legacy does offer drink service the aisle is blocked by the drink cart. Not so on Southwest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCfree
What did I miss, both where Southwest is better than the legacy carriers and where the legacy carriers still have an edge?
When there are labor issues at the legacies, the front-line employees have no problem taking it out on the passengers in the form of strikes, sickouts, work slowdowns, and F/A's creating havoc around our system (CHAOS)
When there are labor issues at WN (rare, but it has happened in the past) both sides seem to eventually be able to come to an agreement without the front line employees taking it out on the passengers.
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why do I fly UA? (and before that CO?)
reading these posts is sort of like reading the CO board, and while I'm glad WN is arround to keep down fares, its not for me. Why UA (last couple of years, before that CO/NW)?
(1) I get upgrades or E+ every flight
(2) I get non-stop cross country flights
(3) I use my miles to take the family to europe or asia in F or C class
(4) I always get an isle seat, unless i'm in F
(5) I get upgrades into international business class on PS flights to NYC
(6) UA always gets me home or to my business apt, even if they have to reroute me or send me on a different carrier.
UA has its problems, but no offence guys, every flight I have had to take on WN is short distance and I get jammed in a bad seat next to some person who keeps me from working.
If I lived in a place with cruddy legacy service and lots of WN (say Nashville)flights I might reconsider, but I don't.
WN is very successful, but its a market that has limits for folks in big cities and people who travel all the time, particurly internationally. Many folks who fly UA or CO or AA, or the "new global airline" will not fly WN. WN will at some point top out in its market share, and there are some signs its close to this now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spin88
WN will at some point top out in its market share, and there are some signs its close to this now.
6 solid reasons there. UA is definitely better for you.
Is WN close to exhausting its growth opportunities? I doubt it very much. WN needs enough passengers in each city to support 10 or more flights per day. There are many, many cities that meet that requirement.
I expect WN's market share to grow faster over the next 2 years than it has for the past decade or more. Why? Because some existing carriers will stop operating; leaving unserved markets. Southwest is better positioned to pounce on these opportunities than any other airline, and the $600M they just borrowed underlines this point.
WN is very successful, but its a market that has limits for folks in big cities and people who travel all the time, particurly internationally. Many folks who fly UA or CO or AA, or the "new global airline" will not fly WN. WN will at some point top out in its market share, and there are some signs its close to this now.
Internationally, I agree. I'm Platinum on AA and DL (expect to requal or step up on AA thanks to AADER, while Delta is doing whatever they can to lose business - yet as lifetime Gold on DL, I'll still have status), and I'm A-list on WN.
I prefer WN to DL or AA on many, if not most, domestic routes. But I maintain status on AA and DL because of international travel. For long-hauls - IAD/LAX, for example - I'll try and fly a legacy if I can get an upgrade. They're getting harder and harder to get, however. If you're going to be stuck in coach, WN tends to have more leg room (yeah, I know that E+ is an exception, but I won't put up with UA's lousy customer service).
I actually find that flying WN is less stressful than some of the others.
No, it can't go everywhere. And yes, it's close to the top of it's likely ability to gain market share between a number of markets. But as for business travelers, I'm meeting more and more that like WN because there's less "nickel and diming" of passengers. I've seen folks on WN flights that I used to see on one of the other airlines.
For you, sounds like UA is best. For me, I keep a foot in both worlds. I know my view would probably be different if WN didn't have so many non-stops at BWI.
I'm glad WN is arround to keep down fares, its not for me.
Status makes a big difference.
One reason that I avoid the Legacies is that on SWA I can avoid the mega-hubs which is where a lot of the delay situations develop. SWA's airplanes keep moving. They don't sit around at a big hub waiting for delayed flights to come in then getting in long lines of delayed flights trying to depart.
Had a trip that was supposed to connect through MDW on SWA last winter. MDW was getting freezing rain and eventually closed. I had options of reaching my destination through LAX, LAS, and SAN (and probably others). Just before I comitted to the LAX option I found out that my flight's stop at MDW was being cancelled and, since it was a through flight to my final destination, they were sending it non-stop instead. If I had booked on UAL through ORD that day it would have been a mess.
As far as the seats, without status on the Legacies I don't have much luck getting seats that I like. On SWA you have to know the game, just as you have to know the game of seat selection on Legacies, but I consistantly get better seats on SWA than I'm able to get on Legacies without status. I want an aisle seat in the front half of the airplane and get it every single time on SWA. I'm also quite successful at getting an empty middle seat on SWA, if there are any on the flight. Something which is a coin toss with assigned seating. When I know that the flight is full I can look for a small person in the center seat and take that aisle. That's usually a couple with the man in the window and woman in the center.
I actually find that flying WN is less stressful than some of the others.
Me too! No worries about whether my SYD-SFO flight is going to be cancelled (see running thread in UA forum).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsx
I expect WN's market share to grow faster over the next 2 years than it has for the past decade or more. Why? Because some existing carriers will stop operating; leaving unserved markets. Southwest is better positioned to pounce on these opportunities than any other airline, and the $600M they just borrowed underlines this point.
100% correct. As legacy airlines retreat (witness AA's recent abandonment of OAK) WN will swoop in with more gates and flights. Not to mention all the places it has not yet driven a stake, like MSP, CLT, etc. WN is nowhere near "topping out"
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin88
(3) I use my miles to take the family to europe or asia in F or C class
Really? You get 4 people on a peak summer flight to Paris? They must treat 1Ks really well, because there seems to be no end to complaints from the vast majority of flyers who can't get 2 international business class seats on a plane, much less a family. Of course, it is easy to do if you are willing to pay 2x miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin88
(6) UA always gets me home or to my business apt, even if they have to reroute me or send me on a different carrier.
I guess you've never been on the last flight of the day (popular with business travelers) only to find it cancelled or delayed, or causing a missed connection.
I actually find WN to be far more reliable in getting me to my intended destination on time, but that's just my experience.
I actually find WN to be far more reliable in getting me to my intended destination on time, but that's just my experience.
Agree.
But it's not 100%.... Mrs. GHF spent the night in a hotel near BWI last year when WN delayed the BWI-HOU flight on she was scheduled to the point where it was a complete misconnect to the HOU-SAT flight. The BWI-SAT non-stop was oversold. OTOH, I was booked on DL, which took me to ATL where I had to wait until 2:00 AM for a 5-hour-late inbound from EWR, getting me home at 4 AM).
Having said that, I've found WN to be much more reliable... that was a key reason I moved over.
Both valid points. However, and keeping in mind there is a huge difference between something that is available today and what the future may hold, it is no secret that WN's international push will include alliances, so you might be able to book international award travel in the future.
If that is true, WN would become a LOT more appealing to me. Especially being in SAN.
I guess you've never been on the last flight of the day (popular with business travelers) only to find it cancelled or delayed, or causing a missed connection.
I actually find WN to be far more reliable in getting me to my intended destination on time, but that's just my experience.
I was going to agree with most of what you said, until you said this. As another "west-coaster", I often find that by the time my plane gets across the country to me from the east coast, those small 5-10 minute delays have piled up into 45-60 minute delays on my end.
The legacies don't really have that problem because they allow more time to turn planes around (yes, that means they can fly less in a day, but at least they are ontime more).
It's very hard to determine how WN is doing with respect to ontime arrivals and departures because on their website, as soon as the plane arrives, it just says "arrived" and conveniently removes the late departure and arrival times from their website. Kinda shady.
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WN is a good option for me in certain circumstances - for example. today I had to change my trip for next week - client had to change meeting day causing me to alter flights. To stick with NW would have been $1100 but I xcelled the NW trip leaving me with a credit with them, and re-booked on WN for $240 or so.
However, I will stick with legacies when and where I can.
Quote:
One reason that I avoid the Legacies is that on SWA I can avoid the mega-hubs which is where a lot of the delay situations develop. SWA's airplanes keep moving. They don't sit around at a big hub waiting for delayed flights to come in then getting in long lines of delayed flights trying to depart.
I guess you don't fly out of LAX or PHL then. All the airlines, including WN, are subject to the same departure delays on the runways....
Quote:
Me too! No worries about whether my SYD-SFO flight is going to be cancelled (see running thread in UA forum).
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If you are taking the last flight of the day out of MDW, there's a good chance you will be delayed waiting for passengers from one or two late inbound flights. Just like you'll experience at any other carrier's hub. Except that MDW is less prone to delays than most hubs.
Me too! No worries about whether my SYD-SFO flight is going to be cancelled (see running thread in UA forum).
