"Our attitude towards others determines their attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Wow, I haven't heard that name in about 30 years.
Didn't he have a little one-minute radio piece every day? Like Paul Harvey, a secular homily kind of thing? I think it came on at 6:59 am where I lived.
I take exception to the "my way or the highway' approach here.
Let's summarize the thread. The Op contained a ranting, dythirambic mostly inaccurate tirade on how everything is fantastic at LUV but going to hell in a hardcart over at United Airlines.
False.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
I posted a rectifying shot saying, in a nutshell, that WN was essentially no better that others, and the low level of complaints was due to the low levels of expectation and the high levels of emplanements. Not totally gushing over or giving accolades to WN but not dismissive either.
False. (As noted above, many of us have higher expectations for WN than we do for legacies.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
And now we get this semi-closure gem of the "if you don't like us, that's just too damn bad, go fly a kite or a legacy" variety. Cult members usually don't bother with nuance, I take it...
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
Well, the point of the argument that is that WN offers some advantages over legacies but that better service is a canard as it is no better that on other airlines, and that it is difficult to compare carriers because thy have different markets.
False. (DOT stats objectively show WN service is better. Subjective posts here confirm.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
Oh, I am forgot one biggie in the "our life is rosier here at WN" department. Try asking them to endorse a WN ticket to their competitor when their last flight out has cancelled but UA has one that could take you hom, and then dump the rose-colored glasses..
True. (But most legacies won't endorse anymore unless you are top tier and paid a full fare - lot's of infrequent travelers get screwed every day. In fact it is probably worse than on WN because WN generally has more frequent service.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
And good luck being on time leaving on a flight leaving PHX or LAS after 6 pm. NTSB report is pretty dismal on end-of-day scenarios when an aircraft has spent its day puddle jumping from PHL to OAK, stopping in six different cities on the way. No one leaves on time after 6 pm.
True. I've had my share of delays on both UA and WN out of LAS. Ce la vie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droneklax
ButWN gets you from Lubbock to Albuquerque on time, reliably before 420pm. If you find yourself waxing poetic about the rest, go check your allegiances and how much Kool-Aid is left in that can.
Nice to know. Though I mostly fly WN on routes that directly compete with UA, and WN whips their butt most every time.
This is what most people say once they have actually flown WN.
Lol, personally I'm not a big fan of WN's product even though I'm a CP. But I gotta say, I'm willing to fly them if it saves me money. No change fees is pretty nice in that regard.
But WN is not better than I thought. I wasn't expecting much but I remember feeling like I was on Ryanair when I first flew WN. Leaving from a small, out of the way airport (ISP) and no entertainment, not even a newspaper. Twiddled my thumbs for a few hours until I reached my destination. (Granted I got a bit more pitch than on Ryanair)
Anyway, no big deal. I don't mind Ryanair and I don't mind southwest but it's not because I love Southwest's product. I'm not super-loyal either. I'll fly just about anybody else over southwest if I am certain I won't need to change dates. Southwest usually has fares around the same neighborhood as the others. So strictly on fares I dont save much money.
1. Assigned seat on legacies can be off-loaded at will by agents, without any apology. The contract is to transport you from point A to point B in the service class that you paid for. Nothing in CoC states that you have right to sit in specific seat you picked. Airlines will often offer a concession to those who whine, but they aren't required to.
2. WN is great for short hops to mid-cons, but its price isn't always the lowest. When I book flights months in advance and compare legacies with WN, legacies is often $240 while WN is at $300. The existence of the lowest fare bucket at the legacies may contribute to the lack of profit.
Programs: Marriott Platinum, NW Gold, UA 3P, NCL Gold
Posts: 1,469
I use WN when it makes sense - short hauls that are point to point flights where upgrades are no concern and the price is heads and tails much lower than the legacies (which is 99 times out of 100 only true on short hauls.)
They are neither better nor worse than anyone else. Simply a different business model.
Naturally enough, much of this thread's focus is on the customer experience on SW (hey, this is flyertalk, not RampRatTalk or CockpitTalk or JumpseatTalk, after all).
Probably the main reason I enjoy flying Southwest, despite some quite problematic flights with them (but hey, sooner or later those flights happen with everyone), is their history of decent labor/management relations (despite some recent rockiness) and the concomitant ability of various parties to have flexibility in job tasks (e.g., to get planes turned around) to help the airline run better. This is also why I like flying Frontier--that airline's history of excellent labor/management relations. At Southwest and Frontier, I know the pay is competitive and, for the most part, staff aren't showing up stressed about working for the airline.
Now, that doesn't always work from a customer service perspective. But it sure does from a 'putting myself in their shoes' perspective and knowing I want to feel good about going to work each day.
One thing that strikes me about DRONEKLAX's post (post #49) is that being a non-status member or A-list member of Southwest has a lot of the same features as being a United Premier Exec 1K -- having flown 100,000 miles on UA. No charge to use the telephone, for example. Second bag is free if you've got 2P status or better on UA. Second bag is always free on WN. The "1K" desk is in the USA. The "everybody" desk on WN is in the USA.
A lot of 1K's say that they are always upgraded. My understanding of the UA FF system is that you have to pay to be upgraded or use electronic upgrade coupons. When I was loyal to UA and UA had first class (no TED) flights, I could not keep enough free upgrades to be upgraded all the time and paying to be upgraded was expensive. Now, I do accept that 1K's may be unofficially upgraded more often than the program allows, but if they are going to give free, unlimited space available upgrades to 1K's, why not just make that part of the official program like over at NW and CO?
I'm not clear what percentage of a 1K's upgrades are free vs. paid. I'm all for free upgrades (hence my flyer talk handle). Paid? it depends on the price and the availability.
At least we both agree that United's web site is terrible and Southwest's web site works a lot better.
I'll agree that Southwest won't take you to far away lands in any class. And, if you need to go to far away lands, either for business or pleasure, then you will need to fly another airline. May I suggest Cathay Pacific if you go to Hong Kong? It is a lot better than United, and you can earn miles and upgrades on American. But, depending on your anticipated travel schedule for the next year, I can imagine that there are circumstances where United would be a better choice as your focus airline. If you've got a mix of overseas travel, travel on routes that United has first class and travel to cities that Southwest doesn't go to -- then yes, taking a TED flight now and then might make sense.
On the other hand, if your travel is primarily on TED routes, and if you are going to be flying 49 segments or less per year (United 2P vs. Southwest A-list), then I would suggest that Southwest is the better way to go.
Free trips to far away lands of course is a great benefit, but I still suggest that if you have no status with United, you are going to find free tickets at the saver rate are few and far between.
While how the airline is doing from a profit/loss standpoint may not be important in the short run, if you are building up a lot of miles/credits, you'd like the airline to stay around long enough for you to actually use them. If you had points/miles at Aloha Airlines or at ATA, are you not out of luck now?
If United goes under and nobody buys them up before they go Chapter 7, won't all of your miles be worthless? Granted, if you had miles at Reno Air, TWA or other airlines that got merged with other airlines, you had your points converted to American or the other acquiring airline. But a true Chapter 7 wipes out not just the company, but the mileage program too. If you have points/miles on deposit at the Airline's "bank" and the "bank" goes out of business, there is no FDIC insurance for your miles!
I will agree that an extra bag of Cheese-nips should not be the determining factor of who you fly with. Then again, see the posts over on United that some people worry about whether their bowl of nuts are warm or not.
TalkBoard Member/Moderator: Southwest and JetBlue forums
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN CP & A-list, Interstate BBQ at MEM B17, CO Lifetime Presidents Club
Posts: 9,241
UA just announced removal of the 500-mile minimum. Southwest's advantage for short-haul flyers is now even greater. Although there are not many <500 mile markets where UA effectively competes with Southwest.
Southwest has no allegiances so you have no ability to use your earned points/miles for international travel.
No first class on Southwest.
Both valid points. However, and keeping in mind there is a huge difference between something that is available today and what the future may hold, it is no secret that WN's international push will include alliances, so you might be able to book international award travel in the future.
TalkBoard Member/Moderator: Southwest and JetBlue forums
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN CP & A-list, Interstate BBQ at MEM B17, CO Lifetime Presidents Club
Posts: 9,241
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