Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckles
One of the weakest criticisms I have seen.
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Well, I'm busy.
But fear not, I have a few minutes to kill, so I am going to deconstruct this in a hurry.
I am 1K on United and A-List on WN, so I'd like to think that I have an angle.
Change fees.
WN will make you pay full fare if you want to change your flight at the last minute. Yes, UA charges change fees. Sometimes. I don't really see the difference
Ticketless Travel Funds: Southwest invented it. United rarely needs it, the change fees cause almost no remaining value. You can't look it up on the Internet, but keep your ticket number (the long one) and you can access it on the phone with an agent.
Untrue. You can see your unused tickets on the website.
Phone booking: Southwest: Free. United $15. This helped me out a lot one time when I couldn't get to a computer and I wanted to make a change.
Untrue. UA charges me zippo.
Baggage: Southwest, two bags free, third bag $25. United, first bag free, second bag $25, third bag $100 (different rates apply if you have status, second bag is free, not sure on the third bag).
Untrue. UA charges me zippo.
Call Centers: Southwest -- based in the USA. United -- based in India. Constant complaints on the United FT Board about the India call center that the customer service over there can't understand all of the complex rules. United's customers understand the rules better than the call center employees. If United's rules weren't so complex, maybe the call center employees could understand them?
untrue. the 1K desk is in the US and has some of the best trained agents around. WN's call center has its shares of crappy agents, trust me.
Web site. Southwest's works great. Posters on United's FT Board call United's web site ".bomb" instead of ".com". I've had all kinds of weird things happen when I'm on there. On United's FT Board, they have a "sticky" listing all the problems.
True. UA's website is terrible and someone needs to lose their job over it.
One-way bookings. Southwest: No extra charge. No change fee means no penalty for using one-ways. Makes life simple. Helps to make the web site easier to use too. United: Book a one way and change your mind? If the fare was less than $150, just throw the ticket (and your money) away. Book a round trip and double your chances that you have to change one flight or the other.
I usually flight back, so I do not see the need for this. Non-issue. I can buy a full fare OW or a cheapo RT and dump the return, where's the problem?
In-flight snacks. On a 629-mile flight from DEN to LAS, Southwest gives both a bag of peanuts and a larger bag of crackers, such as Cheez-its. United gives one bag of pretzels or a pretzel mix.
Well, la-dee-dah. I don't see the difference between a bag of pretzels and a bag of Cheez-it. Furthermore, I am always upgraded. Misleading.
In-flight snacks, part 2. On a longer flight, DEN-MCO, Southwest in April 2007 gave a snack box. I haven't made that trip since then. United: DEN-PHL in May 2007 was pretzels only.
see above. Misleading part 2
Drinks. Southwest: On a 629-mile flight, one drink plus a pass-through by the flight attendents asking for refills. Alteratively, ask for a full can of soda and you get it without the dirty look from the flight attendents. United: Ask for a full can of soda and the FA gives you the feeling that you alone are causing United to lose money.
Anecdotal. Service on WN can be as shoddy as it can be on UA. Misleading
Drinks, part 2. Southwest: More alcoholic drink coupons than I can use. United: Coupons? What are those?
[b] I get coupons with UA. I never use them, nor do I ever use WN's. How do you get coupons with WN? If you are elite ( as in with a RR tix, or by buying BS. I don't see the difference. Non-issue.
In-flight entertainment: Southwest:
YOU MUST BE KIDDING, RIGHT? Misleading.
Live in-flight entertainment: Southwest:
Please.
Seating: Southwest: One seat (12F) with the most legroom of any coach seat on any US (maybe worldwide) carrier. The legroom may even exceed International Business class on legacy carriers (if you have never experienced this, please do sometime!) One more seat (11E) with amazing shoulder room as there is no 11F. Three more seats (11A-B-C) with more legroom than United's Economy Plus. Open seating gives everyone a chance at the comfortable open middle seat on less than full flights (whereas, open middles are reserved for the 100,000 mile flyers on United, then to the 50k flyers and then to the 25k flyers). United: Economy plus on 40% of the cabin on TED flights. Upgrades to first class on non-TED flights will cost you serious money. Occasional free upgrades if you are Premier or better.
Again, anectodal, misleading and erroneous. Compares apples to oranges. While I am not dissatisfied with WN's leg room in general, I am upgraded on UA so I do not care.
Frequent Flyer Program: Southwest: Fly four round trips and rent from Hertz each time with Quad credit, get a free domestic ticket. My experience, they are pretty easy to use. When the Quad credit runs out, triple credit will be good with five round trips. For me, four round trips is about 5,000 BIS (butt-in-seat) miles (an important measurement over at United). United: Depending on your status and use of other mileage sources, I don't see how to get it below 10,000 BIS miles, generally more like 15,000, to earn 25,000 miles for a free domestic ticket. Granted, if you save more miles, you might get to go to far away lands, such as Europe or Australia. Check United's web site and try to find such a trip for at their SAVER rates (90k miles to Europe in Business, 110K to Australia). If you find one to Australia, let me know, I haven't found it. Otherwise, its 180k to Europe and 220k to Australia.
Please. Comparing WN's FF program with UA's MP is offensive. They don't run in the same category.No partners. No upgrades. No international destinations. Misleading
Non-stop service: Southwest: Many point-to-point non-stops. United: I hope one end or the other of your A-to-B is one of their hubs. Otherwise, you are going to be visiting one of their hubs. Add 2 hours to your travel time and hope for no weather delays at the hub that day.
[b] You pick and choose. "many point to point", what does that mean? PHL-OAK with four stops in between?
Frequent Flyer Status: Southwest: A-list for 32 flights in a 12 month period. Result: Great seat selection. Companion pass for 100 flight credits. United: 25k miles Premier, 50k miles Premier Exec, 100k miles Premier Exec 1K. Varying levels of improved seating, Economy Plus, free or reduced cost upgrades to first, if the flight isn't a TED flight. Bonus miles. If Southwest doesn't go from your A-to-B but United does, study this frequent flyer system and work it to your advantage.
As a single man, I have NO USE FOR THE COMPANION PASS.
Frequent Flyer Non-Status: Southwest: Still a great A boarding pass if you are organized and do check-in 24 hours before the flight. United: Economy Plus will cost you. Otherwise, its the back of the plane for you! I had the situation where United promised me a seat but wouldn't tell me which one until I got to the airport. I was pretty concerned it was going to be a middle seat. Turned out it wasn't. But, I'd rather have the mystery of which window seat I'm going to get with my A boarding pass than the mystery of "I'm I going to be in the middle seat for over 3 hours?"
Long-term viability: Southwest: Profitable every quarter for the last 34 years. United: Lost $500 million last quarter.
Yeah, WN stock is pretty much where it was 10 years ago.
What did I miss, both where Southwest is better than the legacy carriers and where the legacy carriers still have an edge?
This is what you missed. You are comparing two carriers with two different missions, and you are doing it with an agenda from the start.
WN can't take me to Cape Town in F, I still have to beg for a can of soda or a pillow sometimes, some WN staff have told me 'I don't give a f***", WN's FF is useless to me, and if I wanted to I could probably find some anecdotal evidence of identical problems with UA.
So generally yes, overall this post was misleading and I am sorry to rain on the parade. Look, there is no need to go to that cultish extreme to praise WN. I fly them because they get me where I need to go fast and on time. Period. As far as the rest is concerned, they are just as bad or good as the other guys, depending on what you consider.
All this extra shiny praise is erroneous and, as far as I am concerned, out of place.
