Southwest not giving "Denied Boarding Compensation"
Hello,
I was due to fly from San Jose to Fort Lauderdale on Dec 23rd with my family (me, my wife and 3 year old kid). I checked in at the Southwest counter 1 hr. prior to the flight, and checked in my bags. The print outs I got at the counter said I need to get my boarding pass at the gate. At the counter, they said the flight is overbooked and that they cannot accommodate me in that flight or any other flight until 2 days later. I had to catch a cruise the next day, so getting there 2 days later was not an option. They told me I had to arrange the flight myself in that case. After a lot of trouble, I managed to get a red eye flight the same day for 3 times the price I paid southwest (Paid southwest ~$1000 for 3 tickets, alternate flight cost ~$3000) . They offered me compensation of $300 total for the "inconvenience" + refund of the ticket price. I told them $300 was not enough as I had to pay $3000 for the alternate flight, and go thru a lot of trouble flying red-eye with a 3 year old. They asked me call customer relations, which I did after I came back a week later. I asked for Denied Boarding Compensation which is 400% of ticket price according to DoT guideline, but southwest is telling me I was denied boarding since I did not make the "10 minute rule". I did check-in 1 hour prior, and there were no announcements for our names at the gate counter. I also made it to gate counter in time, but they are saying I did not.
What are my options to get the "Denied Boarding Compensation"? Should I go to court?
Actual timeline of what happened-
Flight scheduled to depart - 2 pm
I checked in outside - 12.55 pm
I was at the gate (not at counter) - 1.30pm
Family at gate, I go get food to go for little one.
We are hearing announcements for volunteers to give up seats.
Boarding started - 1.40pm
I am at counter - 1.45pm
Plane departs - 2.10pm
No announcements for our names between 1.30pm till departure.
Why I did not immediately go to the gate counter-
I was not aware that I do not have confirmed seating, and was not told at the outside check-in that I had to check-in again at the gate to get confirmed seating. I thought I just have to pick up my boarding pass and board.
What I was told when I got to the counter-
They told me the flight is overbooked and do not have seats available for us. They mentioned the announcements to get volunteers to give up their seats was to accomodate us. They did not get any volunteers to give up their seats that day. This means there were no seats available for us regardless of what time I made it to the counter.
In my opinion I am entitled to Denied Boarding Compensation since the reason I missed that flight was due to overbooking. SW is making excuses to deny it by saying we did not make T10.
Last edited by deardude; Jan 5, 13 at 10:53 am..
Reason: Consolidating my information from different posts into original post
Your first step is a complaint to DOT. There's nothing to sue for until DOT has denied your complaint.
However, you will have the same problem with DOT as you will in court. In order to collect IDB, you must have been at the gate no later than T-10. You say you were. WN says you weren't. Unless you've got some external proof (not sure what that would be), this is a he said/she said and you're going to lose. It's just as likely that your watch is off by a minute as anybody else's.
Wish I had better news.
It's water under the bridge for you, but for others, if traveling to a "must make" destination such as for a cruise, I would not want this to come down to whether I was at the gate at T-10 or T-9.
"However, you will have the same problem with DOT as you will in court. In order to collect IDB, you must have been at the gate no later than T-10. You say you were. WN says you weren't. Unless you've got some external proof (not sure what that would be), this is a he said/she said and you're going to lose."
Not necessarily. In a he said/she said situation at a trial, the finder of fact could well decide that one witness is more credible than the other. If the plaintiff in a civil suit is found more credible, then the plaintiff can prevail in such a case.
Just curious - why the 40 minute delay getting from the WN counter to the gate? SJC is not that big. Long security lines? Stopped for a drink at the bar? And why not check in immediately once at the gate? I suspect a line to see the gate agent? Something else?
I'm not trying to be rude by asking the above questions, just trying to get info. A friend of mine was in a similar situation with WN about 2 years ago (flight to catch a cruise), flying BWI to somewhere in Florida. He checked in at the counter and then ran into a "major security issue" at the check point. It had nothing do to with him - just something that dramatically slowed security. He had one of the checkpoint agents call ahead to his gate but still got there right at the cut-off time and WN had given away his seat. It was an issue where WN said he missed the cutoff, he said he did not. When he applied to the DOT, the fact that the delay was caused by security seemed to come into play in resolving this issue. I am not sure if this is always the case or if WN caved in. Point being - reasons for your delay might matter when seeking compensation.
Also, if you have flight that you have to make, check in online at T-24 or get to the airport a lot earlier. I have travelled with kids way younger and it does slow things down, so you have to allow a lot of time.
Last edited by ctbarron; Jan 3, 13 at 1:45 pm..
Reason: spelling
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First and foremost question: did you check in for your original Southwest flight at exactly 24 hours prior to departure?
Presenting at the counter 1 hour before departure and receiving what sounds like a departure management card (security pass to the gate to get your BP) makes it sound like you didn't actually check in at T-24.
That's Golden Rule #1 for any flight you don't want to get IDB'ed from. The single best defense against IDB is to have a confirmed seat assignment in hand. In the Southwest open-seating world, that means checking in at T-24 and getting your B-whatever boarding pass. You do that and you will not get IDB'ed, provided you show up ontime.
Sounds like you were in a weird situation where you were in the gate area at T-20 but maybe not able to hear some announcements or whatnot? I don't know exactly what happened here: all I know is that when I fly WN, I check my entire family in at T-24 and we get to the airport 2 hours early if it's a peak travel date and we're checking bags. I have an A-List BP but my family doesn't, so the T-24 checkin on everybody else is absolutely essential.
No idea what will happen if you sue. Flyertalk is littered with "I'm going to sue" threads, but I never see one that involves a plaintiff investing minimal time in the effort and winning a settlement.
It took 30 mins to get to the boarding area. Since boarding had not yet started, I went to buy some food for the little one. I was not aware of the 10 min rule, and was not told at the outside check-in that I had to check-in again at the gate to get confirmed seating. I thought I just have to pick up my boarding pass and board. Also, I was at counter at least 20 mins before actual departure (which was later than scheduled departure). I do not understand why I was not given confirmed seating at outside check-in, if it was due to overbooked flight, then I should get compensation regardless, isn't it?
Also, I was at counter at least 20 mins before actual departure (which was later than scheduled departure).
What time was the flight scheduled for?
What time did you arrive at the airport?
What time did you arrive at the counter (not get in line at the gate)?
You are making it sound like the flight was delayed, so you showed up after the scheduled departure time based on when you thought the delayed flight would be leaving.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deardude
I do not understand why I was not given confirmed seating at outside check-in, if it was due to overbooked flight, then I should get compensation regardless, isn't it?
If everything happened as you describe, then yes, it seems like you should have been treated as a legitimate IDB. I'm unfamiliar with the gate arrangement at SJC, but if you were standing around the area when they started boarding and didn't miss any announcements, then it seems like you met the rules.
You weren't given a confirmed boarding pass at outside check-in because they were oversold. You're correct on that part.
Do you recall the gate agent soliciting VDB's (volunteers to give up their seats for vouchers and the next flight out)? Are you sure you were there at T-20 minutes, the gate agent knew you were the ones still waiting for BP's, and they never called your name or made any announcement regarding your situation?
I get that Southwest gate areas can be a madhouse as flights are boarding. There's a balance between not wanting to be a huge pain in the a** for a gate agent and wanting to make sure they know exactly where you are and that you're waiting for BP's. But immediately upon clearly security, I would have gone to the GA and made myself very well known. "We need BP's. We'll be sitting right over here." That kind of thing... If you need food, one person quickly scurries off to get it...
By the way, this thread will likely soon be moved to the Southwest forum...
Flight scheduled to depart - 2 pm
I checked in outside - 12.55 pm
I was at the gate (not at counter) - 1.30pm
Family at gate, I go get food to go.
We are hearing announcements for volunteers to give up seats.
Boarding started - 1.40pm
I am at counter - 1.45pm
Plane departs - 2.10pm
No announcements for our names between 1.30pm till departure.
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Mods probably need to move this to the WN board to get the experts there to weigh in.
Based on that description, you seem to have abided by the rules.
My advice still holds...check in at T-24, go physically make yourself known to GA's as soon as possible, etc. But none of that explains why the airline is suggesting that you didn't show up in time.
"However, you will have the same problem with DOT as you will in court. In order to collect IDB, you must have been at the gate no later than T-10. You say you were. WN says you weren't. Unless you've got some external proof (not sure what that would be), this is a he said/she said and you're going to lose."
Not necessarily. In a he said/she said situation at a trial, the finder of fact could well decide that one witness is more credible than the other. If the plaintiff in a civil suit is found more credible, then the plaintiff can prevail in such a case.
OP says "roughly 10 minutes." That's not the same as "10 minutes." And, with an oversold flight, the nanosecond the clock strikes T-10, they get to bump OP's + family with no real consequences. WN and other carriers count on this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Often1
OP says "roughly 10 minutes." That's not the same as "10 minutes." And, with an oversold flight, the nanosecond the clock strikes T-10, they get to bump OP's + family with no real consequences. WN and other carriers count on this.
I guess the question is what the legal burden on the OP is after check-in.
(1) We know there's a bag cut-off time that is precise and system-driven. OP seems to have met that.
(2) We know there's a check-in time that is precise and system-driven. OP definitely met that and received the "go to gate" passes.
(3) We know someone holding a real boarding pass who doesn't present it by T-10 minutes can be denied boarding without compensation, but that's not the OP scenario. He never held that confirmed BP that would be subject to the ten minute rule.
There doesn't seem to be a precise rule about how you are required to announce yourself as "being in the gate area" when you're waiting for a BP. I know how I do it - visibly and vocally - but this seems to be the grey area in question. There's no written rule, is there? GA's don't systematically timestamp the reservation based on when you somehow announced yourself to the GA in the gate area, do they?
It feels like Southwest is playing severe hardball here on the thinnest of technicalities and it seems a bit over the top.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped
(3) We know someone holding a real boarding pass who doesn't present it by T-10 minutes can be denied boarding without compensation, but that's not the OP scenario. He never held that confirmed BP that would be subject to the ten minute rule.
It would seem that you are the one using the thinnest of technicalities. You seem to say that someone with no boarding pass has a lesser burden to be at the gate at T-10 than someone with a boarding pass. I can't imagine any reasonable way to draw that conclusion, and that it must be based on some hyper-literal reading of the rule.
- but this seems to be the grey area in question. There's no written rule, is there? GA's don't systematically timestamp the reservation based on when you somehow announced yourself to the GA in the gate area, do they?
