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New Fees Coming on WN: Sale of BP slots at gate begins 12/20/2012

New Fees Coming on WN: Sale of BP slots at gate begins 12/20/2012

Old Dec 16, 2012, 11:20 am
  #46  
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Well even Southwest has to copy the competition sometimes.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:11 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by lougord99
You misunderstood what I was saying. I am predicting that if a fee for not cancelling is imposed, it will apply to the date that the schedule goes to at the point of the announcement since doing otherwise would be very difficult from an IT point of view.
Just reading that is confusing

Actually, the CofC would change at some point and any bookings after that point would be subject to it's conditions. I assume IT can deal with booking date and fare rules. FL has changed fees a couple of times.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 4:26 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by FindAWay
... Since it says "new fees," my guess is that they'll offer un-used BS fare (and, maybe A-List/A-List Preferred) boarding position for sale at the gate for a fee, which is probably smart. It would have to be more than EBCI though - maybe $20-$25?
I quite often will upgrade my company-provided or client-provided AT fare at the gate, at my own expense, to a BS fare, so offering unused BS fares at the gate is not new. On most of my routes, the cost is $16, but YMMV.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 5:01 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by johnslloyd
I quite often will upgrade my company-provided or client-provided AT fare at the gate, at my own expense, to a BS fare, so offering unused BS fares at the gate is not new. On most of my routes, the cost is $16, but YMMV.
That is quite reasonable if you are A+. The points alone are usually worth $16.

Where I see this falling apart is if a non-EBCI buys a BS position and saves two rows of seats for the rest of the family bypassing all of the A's, A+ and EBCI in the process.

A more reasonable, but totally unlikely, solution is that A+ gets first shot at automatic upgrades (then A), just like the legacies have a FC upgrade list list. When the BS positions are full, there will now be a few open A positions that can be sold. EBCI should get first choice then everyone else. It is totally unworkable logistically, but the fair way to do it.

It would be easier if WN would just board by status. Once the BS boards, all A+ could board in order even if they were a late purchase or change that got a C BP. Then board the A's in order, continuing by group until everyone is on the plane. Those that bought the upgrade would be reassigned to their temporary new group.

Heck, when I am preboarding with an A-18, they could even sell my position.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 5:09 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by johnslloyd
I quite often will upgrade my company-provided or client-provided AT fare at the gate, at my own expense, to a BS fare, so offering unused BS fares at the gate is not new. On most of my routes, the cost is $16, but YMMV.
What would be new is offering the unused BS slots to WGA passengers for, say, double the difference between BS and Anytime fare, perhaps minus any EBCI fee already paid.

This sounds very much like the Latecomer Check-in we discussed here in early 2010: It's a second chance for people who for whatever reason ended up with a C boarding pass.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 8:04 am
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by nsx
With the flat tire rule I still have 2 hours to get to the airport and catch the next available flight.
That makes sense - thanks!
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 8:08 am
  #52  
 
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I Bet You $150 No Change to the Unofficial Flat Tire Rule

Don't worry about the flat tire rule! This has nothing to do with that. As I understand it, WN's flat tire rule is an unofficial courtesy extended at the airport. Most all airlines offer this, regardless of what any sort of paper or contract says.

No airline wants to come right out and publish the unofficial flat tire rule on its web site, because it would encourage droves of people to figure out that they can show up late for a flight and get on the next one.

Most (95%) of flyers are very nervous about the flying experience, most "normal people" are completely outside their element and in a discomfort zone at the airport. Most people fear missing their flight, and have no idea what an airline would do if they missed their flight. By not publishing the unofficial flat tire rule, you encourage the consumer behavior of arriving on time and figuring bad things will happen if you miss your flight.

If an ordinary consumer misses their flight and gets reaccommodated on the next flight its "the nice gate agent," not the flat tire rule. They got lucky, they smiled, they flirted, they cried, they did whatever, they charmed, there baby cried, they told them they had to go to a funeral the day after their wedding, whatever.

Also as far as this re-use fee, it will quite likely make the adjustment on the ticket in an overnight batch IT process, well after the flat tire rule would come in to play.

For example, in theory, on JetBlue if you miss your flight, you forfit any and all remaining value on the ticket. In reality, the airport generally accommodates pax under what we might call an unofficial flat tire rule. JetBlue's Sabre implimentation does not void out the funds until at least after midnight on the original travel date.

They can't instantly muck up (void or change) ticket coupons because they would cause issues with IRROPS if they literally did it the second the gate agent closed out the flight.

Again, JetBlue has no official externally published flat tire rule, but the airport uses one at its discretion. The call center, like any other airline, more closely folllows written procedures & contracts to the letter. You might get 4 different answers from 3 different agents at the airport about JetBlue's double secret unofficial flat tire rule. Or Southwest's for that matter.

Also with any airline an agent has the final discretion and the power if you will to do anything with you regardless of the rules. It is just what you individually can or cannot negotiate with the agent, or maybe the next agent. What you can or cannot negotiate is a lot more important than some contract that no "normal" customer reads.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:11 am
  #53  
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Per this blog, http://boardingarea.com/blogs/dealsw...-airtran-fees/, EBCI will be going to $12.50.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:19 am
  #54  
 
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Some reports are saying the overweight bag fee will double to $100, based on Gary Kelly's statement during the webcast... but the Southwest website says it increases to $75.

Is anyone official from Southwest reading this who can clarify?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:13 pm
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by zachary
Per this blog, http://boardingarea.com/blogs/dealsw...-airtran-fees/, EBCI will be going to $12.50.
Yup, I noted it up-thread a few days ago too:

Originally Posted by FindAWay
Also, the article mentions an increase in EBCI fees to $12.50. (Edited to add specifics mentioned in this BusinessWeek article)
The blog post does detail the fee changes (well, it doesn't mention the selling available A1-A15 boarding positions at the gate) nicely in one place, though.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:16 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by nsx
Gary Kelly's closing remarks:
"We are America's favorite airline. A component of that of course and an important one is our low fares and our low costs. But we walk that fine line of having an inexpensive price but also coupled with great service. And we don't want to lose that. So we envision that in the future we can pursue the opportunity to be North America's favorite airline.
Interesting. We are America's favorite airline. We want to be North America's favorite airline.

I wonder if that's a general reference to AirTran flying to some nearby international destinations...or a preview of real Southwest expansion plans to Canada?

Forget about whatever metric he's using for "favorite": the intent to become the favorite among Canadians, Mexicans, or both is especially interesting to me.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:37 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by ursine1
Some reports are saying the overweight bag fee will double to $100, based on Gary Kelly's statement during the webcast... but the Southwest website says it increases to $75.

Is anyone official from Southwest reading this who can clarify?
I hope so because I occasionally have to pay the fee and $100 seems like a large increase. What they need to do is enforce the size limit on carry ons.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:39 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by pinniped
Interesting. We are America's favorite airline. We want to be North America's favorite airline.

I wonder if that's a general reference to AirTran flying to some nearby international destinations...or a preview of real Southwest expansion plans to Canada?

Forget about whatever metric he's using for "favorite": the intent to become the favorite among Canadians, Mexicans, or both is especially interesting to me.
This thread has some nice speculation about route expansion: South America before Hawaii?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 6:04 pm
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by InkUnderNails
That is quite reasonable if you are A+. The points alone are usually worth $16. ...
It was even better this past fall with the 2X bonus that ended Nov 15. I made out like a bandit on that one.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 7:05 am
  #60  
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Hat tip to gogreyhound

I'd like to point out that gogreyhound alerted us to the possibility of new fees 8 weeks ago:

Originally Posted by gogreyhound
GK excerpts from the Q3 conference call on Oct. 18:
--"...I did want to admit what I think is the obvious, which is we're off (financial) plan. We do have some concerns about the economy and higher fuel prices, and I don't we want to just continue on with business as usual. So we will be looking for way to augment our current strategies which I'm very enthused about already...." (Don't you feel the enthusiasm?)
--When asked if that could mean "reconsidering" Bags Fly Free: "Well, for now, of course not. I don't think we would ever say no to anything whether it's assigned seats or charging per bags, but we'll be looking for any and all good ideas...."

I think they have too much invested in BFF to pull the plug, but GK is retreating from the past when he said it was sacrosanct. The Wall Street jackals have never liked it, but GK's response was that the extra passengers that flew WN because of BFF more than compensated for the lack of bag revenue. No mention of that this time.

I think ticket change fees are coming. Wall Street has never liked the lack of change fees either (they're a tough crowd to please) and they are less visible than some other possible changes, such as assigned seats with better locations costing extra.
A no-show fee is far less onerous than a change fee, and selling unused BS slots at the gate is not assigned seating, but you have to wonder where the trend will stop.


Other observations from the October thread:
Originally Posted by gogreyhound
I would really hate it if they started imposing change penalties. At the same time, I know that Wall Streeters view no change fees as a license for people to buy a ticket now and trade it in later on a lower fare should there be a sale and pocket the credit for future use. I'm concerned that this argument may make headway.
Originally Posted by nsx
Assigned seats lead to premium seating, which leads to FF upgrades. Pretty soon Southwest is JustAnotherAirline(TM).

It could happen, but it would be the extinction of what Herb gave birth to.
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