Deweyboy

There was a Wall Street Journal article about this site today (11/10/2016, page D1 - or online here:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/when-uni...3DU6A5bIw%2BEn ).

It details liability and settlement amounts from airlines bumping passengers. I immediately created an account and started writing this in hopes I could recoup some lost funds.


As a special celebration for our wedding anniversary and my completion of two master's degrees, we planned a trip to the Atlantis in the Bahamas.


Southwest Tickets for 2, $780.58 each ($1561.16 incl. checked bags) stated itinerary of:


Depart: Baltimore (BWI) 8/25/2016 - 7:50am on Southwest
Arrive: Ft. Lauderdale, FL 8/25/2016 - 10:25am


Int'l segment depart: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, Southwest (SW)
Arrive: Nassau, Bahamas, 8/25/2016 - 12:30pm


FYI - we prioritize trips to maximize destination time followed by price. So a mix of minimizing lay overs (vs. nonstop), but getting there as early as possible on day 1.

• Arrived at BWI prior to 6:50am.
• Around 6:51am, a SW agent called out to the crowd to expedite the 8:50am flight to Costa Rica
• I informed the agent there were 7:50am fliers in line - after a few brief moments of overcoming her confusion, we were slotted to go to the counter next
• Apparently, Int'l destinations (this segment was still domestic), request fliers be onsite 3 hours prior, but the ability for agents to book/process passports, check luggage, etc ends strictly at 1 hour prior.
• I was vehement - I had never missed a flight before and used to travel for a living.
• They attempted to book us on a flight for the next day...unacceptable to us
• Our agent was on the phone for what seemed like 20 minutes, looking for alternatives - a 1 -2 hour delay would have been acceptable. She found nothing.
• I sent my wife to American (AA), adjacent to SW counters nearby.
• They had a 8:45am departure (that morning) for $240.90 extra plus $25 bag fee each (so $531.80 more, $2092.96 total)
• We booked and made the flight.
• We came home on the return segment of our SW.
• There was an issue with all but 1 flight segment (outbound and return) with delays or maintenance. Attendants late (I assume trying to make it from their inbound flights being delayed?), and a bird hit the engine causing a 3 hour maintenance delay.
• I typed and mailed a physical letter to SW and American, I avoided the vituperation typically used to control and get my way with customer service phone calls.
• Both responded. I need to dig up the details of the responses and edit.
• SW did offer a partial refund and a travel voucher.
• AA - I do not recall what (if) they offered. I want to say nothing but worthless pleasantries and apologies for my hardship. For these purposes, until I can confirm - assume no credits or compensation.

Per the WSJ article, "DOT regulations require payment in cash of 200% of the fare, up to $675, if rebooked with only a short delay, or double that if the airline can't get a traveler to the destination within two hours."


So, I'm thinking this:


Of the $2,092.96 mentioned above:

• Communicate to SW the rejection of their offer (if necessary).
• SW flight: $675 x 2 passengers = $1,350 doubled = $2,700.
• AA flight taken due to SW issue: $531.80 for 2 passengers x 2 = $1,063.60
• $2,700 + $1,063.60 =

$3,763.60 - requested amt to be compensated from SW


Thoughts? Do I have a case to expect $3,763.60 from SW or should I be pleased with what I got?


Devil's advocate:
Why do I think my case is not "our fault", per se?
The agent came to the line and was extending a hand to assist processing of passengers for a later flight. This did not happen specifically for our flight as the 6:50am threshold approached and passed. The inconsistent customer experience offered caused a financial hardship for us in addition to impacting our travels without a backup itinerary being offered "within a short duration" as the article states. If offered for travelers in flight group XYZ departing at time ABC, should have been offered to travelers in flight group RST departing at time ABC-1 or not at all.


It turned out there were TWO other couples in line behind us for the same trip. Both duplicated our AA itinerary.

xliioper

You don't have a case. DOT compensation rules are only for denied boardings due to oversales (that's why it's in the section headed -- 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
). This was not related to an oversale situation.

jeffandnicole

Airlines and airports have requested passengers be 3 hours early for international flights for as long as I can remember. (For domestic flights, they request 1 1/2 to 2 hours early).

However, many passengers have pushed those limits, as they can't see or understand why we need to be at the airport so early for an international flight. You arrived just over 1 hour early, which is pushing it in the best of airports. Clearly most people won't arrive at 4:50am for a 7:50am flight, but even 6am would probably have been fine.

You arrived too late. That's all there is to say about it. Heck, they were trying to expedite the process people for a flight 2 HOURS ahead, so that shows how late you were. You're fortunate to receive any compensation from Southwest. Why you are somehow trying to hold SW fully responsible for your own itinerary changes is beyond me.

joshua362

Surprised you got a thing given the CF that is WN international travel.

At t-:59 minutes you were still in line when the flight closed. Too bad they didn't extend the Costa Rica "come on up" courtesy to you but I've never seen them do that, they usually just don't care.

The vouchers may be for the return delays. You won't receive money for incidental expenses for delayed flight short of a multi day IT meltdown.

Sucks but that's the way it is. Nothing to do with over-sales, you never made the gate...

smmrfld

TL;DR, but LBJ got it right in post #2 above.

spongenotbob

I'm not sure what exactly WN or AA did wrong in either case.

You arrived too late. You missed your flight. Many other airlines would have cancelled your return as a "favor". WN didn't do that (to their credit). AA sold you a ticket, and took you to your destination.

How are you entitled to any compensation here, from either airline?

NextTrip

https://www.southwest.com/html/air/a...formation.html

Southwest website states: "If your itinerary includes at least one international leg, we suggest that you arrive at the airport at least 120 minutes prior to the departure time of the first flight in your itinerary. Your passport must be verified by an agent or kiosk at the Southwest Airlines Ticket Counter at least 60 minutes prior to your scheduled departure time in order for you to be accommodated on your flight."

Everything I see there points to your error. Chalk up any loss and move on.

flyerchuk

"I was vehement - I had never missed a flight before and used to travel for a living."

Until now...Sorry, this one is 110% on you. Consider any offer they give you a courtesy.

danielonn

I am sorry but I agree the OP does not have a case as the 1 hour cutoff rule is for the Manifest that gets sent to the Department of Homeland Security to match the "No Fly List". For international flights I always allow 3-4 hours before a flight just to be certain that everything is in order.

Even if my first flight is Domestic connecting to International I still allow 3 hours to ensure the bags are checked and the Passport Verification Process is fine. One doesn't know how long the lines will be and for the most part you can't use kiosks or Curbside for International flights.

The OP could have called Southwest before and ask the question. Southwest is under no obligation to help the OP even if it was for a wedding the other people who were in line earlier for their flight would get priority over those who arrived late for the checkin. I'm sure there were other passengers making the same international flight who arrived earlier.

The least that could happen is the couple would get WN Funds refunded and they could apply it to the new flight and then pay the difference. Other than that there is no compensation as they were one minute past the mandated check in time. Southwest has to abide by the government rules and regulations.The computer will close the checkin for the OP automatically and very rarely can an override be done but for the most part its a set in stone rule

Had the OP been present 10 minutes before the checkin cut off providing that the security lines were not long they may be able to make their flight and their bags may or may not have been sent on their itinerary.

The OP used to travel for a living should know the rules and research them in advance. A simple 10 minute call to WN or a quick look on their webstie would have informed the OP about the 3 hour suggested checkin time and 1 hour cutoff rule even if its a Domestic-International connection. All airlines have the same regulations. For me I allow 4 hours just to play it safe.

I can put it into perspective for the OP with two Masters Degrees. Lets say you showed up late to your Final Exam of your final class that would have made you a Masters Student now you have to retake the class, graduate late. For those attending your ceremony who purchased non-refundable airfare and perhaps non-refundable hotel rooms the University is not responsible for compensating them. The Professor has every right to deny you to take the exam and give you a 0. You can beg to the Dean and Director of the Department all you want but you will for the most part be given no sympathy. I don't care if your car broke down, you overslept etc. Its still your responsibility to be at the exam before time.

Yes airlines can be strict just like your professor. In my eyes you were owed nothing. It was your decision to buy tickets on American to salvage your trip. WN should have never compensated you as they Denied you boarding for failure to checkin on time. The same would go if you lost or forgot your passports etc.

Here is my most recent Domestic-International-Domestic flight. My Father and I were flying to Thailand and we were booked on separate tickets. I booked Delta down to LAX to connect with Air China to Beijing and then on to Bangkok. We allowed 5 hours before checkin and the flight arrived on time and we were at the Air China ticket counter 5 minutes before they opened. On the return we allowed 5 hours too and Customs, Checkin and Security took less than an hour but if it took more we would have enough time to make the flight.

If Delta was late they would not help us get on to our Air China flight nor would Air China help us with our Delta Flight. Its a risk yes but a calculated one as I knew that the earlier flights for the most part arrives on time after looking at the history on Flight Aware. We could have arrived the night before and stay the night after but this is not flying to JFK and connecting this is LAX and everything worked out perfectly. Considering we flew 8000+ everything was basically on time.

Travel Insurance is so important for any Trip Interruption and I wonder if the OP considered this. Not sure the insurance would pay a claim if the OP checked in late and missed the flight.

danielonn

And if they extended the courtesy extending the cutoff time for everyone it would not be fair to those passengers who arrived early within the time constraints.