A Time and a Place for WN
May 21, 2016, 9:28 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,072
A Time and a Place for WN
I have noticed that WN is better for the shorthail flights. I am one that does not mind paying the annual credit card fees of an airline like AA to get free bags. Lets say you pay $90 to get free bags for 4 passengers r/t. $25x2z4=$200-$210 depending on the airline. $90 for a year is hell of a lot cheaper.
If I am taking a cruise or flying international I will avoid WN as I will just book on a partner airline that connects with the international leg and allow enough time as opposed to flying WN where I have to reclaim my bags and wheel it over to the other airline. Totally not worth saving $20. For a cruise I have seen on Airline a family miss a cruise because of the standby policy and WN does not endorse tickets on other airlines. Also I fly a day or two before a cruise.
Southwest is good for shorthaul flights if they are less than the other airlines. I used DING for one reason only and that was because DING was good for looking at the big airline's website before they started charging for bags. I would fly down to LA and did not like WN's long lines so for $120 I booked AA, United or Delta even when the fare rose a bit it was still worth avoiding the long lines.
Now I may get some naysayers here who love WN but when I flew to New York in 2003 I remember getting my AA non stop flight r/t for $198 and upgraded to First Class an I used my miles for international flights too. WN while they seem good on their policy of changing flights and keeping the value if the fare goes down it forces you to fly on WN again within a year and perhaps your going where they don't fly. So if I paid $30 more to fly AA am I crying? No.
I still think Delta Comfort Plus is better than WN as they include drinks and give you more legroom, Sky Priority unlike the long lines at WN. WN is good if there is a major fare difference. If its a short SJC-PHX-SJC I don't really mind who I fly but if its SFO-JFK-SFO I'll fly AA and use my miles to upgrade.
All in all we can make an educated decision who to fly. WN may claim they have low fares but one still needs to do their homework. For me time is worth more than savings. If I can fly 5.5 hours vs 12 hours with stops/connections I'll take the $70 more to fly nonstop and even with Buy On Board Meals fine. I would even sacrifice not checking my bag to fly the nonstop. I can buy toothpaste for $3 or use the samples from the Dentist, Shampoo from hotels etc.
It seems like people are locked into the Bags Fly Free yes that is great but what if your flights are longer and you arrive at 10 PM vs 4 PM at your destination and you have a 2 hour drive? Congrats you just paid for an extra night at a hotel. People don't realize the cost savings Yes it may be $174 to fly on airline X but that airline arrives pretty late vs paying $30 and not paying $100 for a hotel for an extra night.
I go by Quality Price Ratio. If my QPR equals 8-10 and this includes comfort, time,service etc I'l go with airline B. I know WN has you wait in long lines so for me that is taking away from my precious time. I would rather be sitting in a cafe or airline lounge working rather than lose productivity waiting in line.
Please feel free to comment. I am not bashing WN I am just opening your eyes to show that its good to make sacrifices in order to have a more comfortable experience.
If I am taking a cruise or flying international I will avoid WN as I will just book on a partner airline that connects with the international leg and allow enough time as opposed to flying WN where I have to reclaim my bags and wheel it over to the other airline. Totally not worth saving $20. For a cruise I have seen on Airline a family miss a cruise because of the standby policy and WN does not endorse tickets on other airlines. Also I fly a day or two before a cruise.
Southwest is good for shorthaul flights if they are less than the other airlines. I used DING for one reason only and that was because DING was good for looking at the big airline's website before they started charging for bags. I would fly down to LA and did not like WN's long lines so for $120 I booked AA, United or Delta even when the fare rose a bit it was still worth avoiding the long lines.
Now I may get some naysayers here who love WN but when I flew to New York in 2003 I remember getting my AA non stop flight r/t for $198 and upgraded to First Class an I used my miles for international flights too. WN while they seem good on their policy of changing flights and keeping the value if the fare goes down it forces you to fly on WN again within a year and perhaps your going where they don't fly. So if I paid $30 more to fly AA am I crying? No.
I still think Delta Comfort Plus is better than WN as they include drinks and give you more legroom, Sky Priority unlike the long lines at WN. WN is good if there is a major fare difference. If its a short SJC-PHX-SJC I don't really mind who I fly but if its SFO-JFK-SFO I'll fly AA and use my miles to upgrade.
All in all we can make an educated decision who to fly. WN may claim they have low fares but one still needs to do their homework. For me time is worth more than savings. If I can fly 5.5 hours vs 12 hours with stops/connections I'll take the $70 more to fly nonstop and even with Buy On Board Meals fine. I would even sacrifice not checking my bag to fly the nonstop. I can buy toothpaste for $3 or use the samples from the Dentist, Shampoo from hotels etc.
It seems like people are locked into the Bags Fly Free yes that is great but what if your flights are longer and you arrive at 10 PM vs 4 PM at your destination and you have a 2 hour drive? Congrats you just paid for an extra night at a hotel. People don't realize the cost savings Yes it may be $174 to fly on airline X but that airline arrives pretty late vs paying $30 and not paying $100 for a hotel for an extra night.
I go by Quality Price Ratio. If my QPR equals 8-10 and this includes comfort, time,service etc I'l go with airline B. I know WN has you wait in long lines so for me that is taking away from my precious time. I would rather be sitting in a cafe or airline lounge working rather than lose productivity waiting in line.
Please feel free to comment. I am not bashing WN I am just opening your eyes to show that its good to make sacrifices in order to have a more comfortable experience.
May 21, 2016, 10:16 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
WN is not the cheapest, check the rates...
Depends on the dates...
As for flight changes, and cancelations WN any day..
CP great deal..
AA I get free bags, change flights same day, and even choose my seat...lifetime.
I use both airlines...
Depends on the dates...
As for flight changes, and cancelations WN any day..
CP great deal..
AA I get free bags, change flights same day, and even choose my seat...lifetime.
I use both airlines...
May 21, 2016, 11:33 pm
#3
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: VX Gold/WN Companion
Posts: 682
My bags fly free and I can change or cancel flights at ANY time...that is the value to me. Having A List Status helps. I change over 50% of my flights...as soon as that goes away, I would agree with your assessment but for me that one feature alone keeps me loyal to WN. But not a blind loyalty. Price, schedule and travel time all factor in but all things being close to equal it is WN hands down.
I DESPISE the three legacy carriers, but that is due to zero status which makes flying royally suck these days.
I DESPISE the three legacy carriers, but that is due to zero status which makes flying royally suck these days.
May 22, 2016, 7:25 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Programs: Southwest | A-list preferred + CP || Marriott | Gold
Posts: 70
Yes, I consider the no change fees to be one of the best things about WN. I have to change flights not infrequently and I hate to think of the added cost of a change fee from one of the other airlines. When you add in the CP the occasional hassles of WN are completely worth it.
May 22, 2016, 7:37 am
#7
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,870
May 22, 2016, 7:52 am
#8
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mid-MO
Programs: Hilton Honors, Southwest Rapid Rewards
Posts: 66
It all depends on your home airport. I'm more likely to find a nonstop domestic on WN than on anyone else for my flight needs. If I want to fly just about anyone else, I'm likely to need to change planes.
May 22, 2016, 2:43 pm
#11
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: AA Plat Pto, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,536
The longest line I have stood in flying SWA has been TSA from Vegas. That was going to happen regardless of airline choice. You might be thinking of the old group boarding but that has been gone for at least 4 years.
I don't always fly Southwest but I do check them every trip. They don't always win on schedule or price but the majority of my domestic flying has been with them for the past two years. They must be meeting whatever QPR ratio I am using.
I don't always fly Southwest but I do check them every trip. They don't always win on schedule or price but the majority of my domestic flying has been with them for the past two years. They must be meeting whatever QPR ratio I am using.
May 22, 2016, 4:00 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,502
My bags fly free and I can change or cancel flights at ANY time...that is the value to me. Having A List Status helps. I change over 50% of my flights...as soon as that goes away, I would agree with your assessment but for me that one feature alone keeps me loyal to WN. But not a blind loyalty. Price, schedule and travel time all factor in but all things being close to equal it is WN hands down.
I DESPISE the three legacy carriers, but that is due to zero status which makes flying royally suck these days.
I DESPISE the three legacy carriers, but that is due to zero status which makes flying royally suck these days.
2. Sure, you can change your WN ticket without a fee, but the cost of that new ticket can be very pricey - particularly if you would like to standby for an earlier flight - free or small fee on most other carriers
3. A List only works on some routes - I bought a ticket SAN-SJC more than one month ago for 5/23, ended up with B4 (A-Lister). Now that AS is starting SAN-SJC service, I was able to RESERVE my preferred seat in advance, grab an earlier flight home if I am done early without having to buy a new ticket. AS is adding additional intra-California flights to compete with WN, resulting in lower fares, more room on WN flights.
BTW: Alaska will match your A List status (once per lifetime) so you can have the opportunity to upgrade to first class, reserve exit row seats, board early, bags fly free without the credit card.
May 23, 2016, 3:09 pm
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I think the Low Fares issue is long dead. I don't remember really competitive prices on WN after about 2009. At that point USairways, Jet Blue and even some legacies were matching or beating WN's prices. I can remember flying PHX to IAH for 80 dollars LESS on Contintenal regularly. And of course, there is "cheaper technically" and "cheaper significantly". While WN's prices may beat a legacy by 20 to 30 dollars, it is negligible. That amount is not enough of a difference to make me want to line up at the gate and not get miles towards F class somewhere else.
Change fees were an incentive for me, until I realized that in 10 years I needed to change only once. Other people have more fluid schedules, but Ma and Pa Kettle, who make up the bulk of the pax, probably don't change that often either.
Bag fees are still a driver...if you check bags. Some leisure travelers do. But I am the kind of person who never does, regardless of traveling for biz or pleasure. It's another line hassle and I pack light as a matter of principle. So for me, it's meaningless.
I avoid WN when I can. The only reason I fly them when I cannot is based on routes. For example, they fly into HOU, which is better for me on quarterly trips than IAH. If WN has a direct, I will tend to favor it over a legacy with a stop . I am based in SAN, so short hops to PHX or LAS make WN a better option as the legacies tend not to have directs within 1 hour flight time of SAN..although I have been known to get on the regionals instead during fare sales. I don't mind barbie jets.
At the end of the day though, I still like flying the legacies for their reward programs that offer better rewards. What good is flying for a free coach seat domestically when I can fly for an F seat internationally?
Change fees were an incentive for me, until I realized that in 10 years I needed to change only once. Other people have more fluid schedules, but Ma and Pa Kettle, who make up the bulk of the pax, probably don't change that often either.
Bag fees are still a driver...if you check bags. Some leisure travelers do. But I am the kind of person who never does, regardless of traveling for biz or pleasure. It's another line hassle and I pack light as a matter of principle. So for me, it's meaningless.
I avoid WN when I can. The only reason I fly them when I cannot is based on routes. For example, they fly into HOU, which is better for me on quarterly trips than IAH. If WN has a direct, I will tend to favor it over a legacy with a stop . I am based in SAN, so short hops to PHX or LAS make WN a better option as the legacies tend not to have directs within 1 hour flight time of SAN..although I have been known to get on the regionals instead during fare sales. I don't mind barbie jets.
At the end of the day though, I still like flying the legacies for their reward programs that offer better rewards. What good is flying for a free coach seat domestically when I can fly for an F seat internationally?
May 23, 2016, 9:17 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,072
1. Get a credit card for your favorite carriers - bags fly free
2. Sure, you can change your WN ticket without a fee, but the cost of that new ticket can be very pricey - particularly if you would like to standby for an earlier flight - free or small fee on most other carriers
3. A List only works on some routes - I bought a ticket SAN-SJC more than one month ago for 5/23, ended up with B4 (A-Lister). Now that AS is starting SAN-SJC service, I was able to RESERVE my preferred seat in advance, grab an earlier flight home if I am done early without having to buy a new ticket. AS is adding additional intra-California flights to compete with WN, resulting in lower fares, more room on WN flights.
BTW: Alaska will match your A List status (once per lifetime) so you can have the opportunity to upgrade to first class, reserve exit row seats, board early, bags fly free without the credit card.
2. Sure, you can change your WN ticket without a fee, but the cost of that new ticket can be very pricey - particularly if you would like to standby for an earlier flight - free or small fee on most other carriers
3. A List only works on some routes - I bought a ticket SAN-SJC more than one month ago for 5/23, ended up with B4 (A-Lister). Now that AS is starting SAN-SJC service, I was able to RESERVE my preferred seat in advance, grab an earlier flight home if I am done early without having to buy a new ticket. AS is adding additional intra-California flights to compete with WN, resulting in lower fares, more room on WN flights.
BTW: Alaska will match your A List status (once per lifetime) so you can have the opportunity to upgrade to first class, reserve exit row seats, board early, bags fly free without the credit card.
May 23, 2016, 9:35 pm
#15
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sarasota, FL (SRQ)
Programs: WN A-List, AA EXP, Hyatt Top Tier (definitely NOT a Globalist), National Exec Elite
Posts: 491
As always, thank you for your insightful commentary as to why WN sucks as well as the lengths you go to in order to avoid the horror of WN. Your sacrifices allow one last seat to open up on CMH-TPA today for my Companion Pass while I secure A-List Preferred. Enjoy your regional jets and keep reminding us what stupid sheep we are.