Oct 27 Schedule Extension - Welcome Back Super Short Haul
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 616
Oct 27 Schedule Extension - Welcome Back Super Short Haul
Didn't want to put this in the schedule prediction thread as this is confirmed from Southwest. Please add your findings here.
From A.Net:
ADD: GRR-MDW (Shortest flight in the system - I believe), FNT-MDW, DAY-MDW, DSM-STL, ICT-STL, EWR-LAS, EWR-MCO, ICT-PHX,
EWR-DEN +1, EWR-MDW +1, DAL-MDW +1, SAN-SFO +1, SAN-SMF +1
DEL: FNT-BWI, DAY-BWI (GRR-BWI down to 1X), DSM-MDW, ICT-MDW, ICT-DAL, GRR-STL, CAK-LAS, CAK-MCO, CAK-TPA, HOU-EWR, GSP-HOU, BNA-EWR, RIC-MCO
from my perspective:
ADD: GSP-ATL
NOTE: GRR-MDW, FNT-MDW and GSP-ATL are 3X...DAY-MDW, STL-ICT, and STL-DSM are 2X
most of the changes involve ex-AirTran stations. Interesting to note since one A.net post speculated that they may be (intentionally?) trying one last effort before a mass closing of ex-AirTran stations. Another post notes that CAK-ATL is all that is left despite DOT reports stating that that was their WORST route in the past. Personally, I see this as Southwest refocusing on super shot haul routes with a better economy. as far as DSM and ICT are concerned, they never did well from MDW on either, and STL should be better. ICT-DAL is puzzling, but I suppose the feed wasn't worth it. The other thing to note is this schedule, other than Memorial Day Weekend, covers a gap in travel. School is still in and families have not begun their long distance summer travel yet. This is a time to try and establish routes. Perhaps this summer they are going to try to get families off the road and into the skies on shorter haul routes? Just my $0.02
Feel free to add any changes you find to this thread.
From A.Net:
ADD: GRR-MDW (Shortest flight in the system - I believe), FNT-MDW, DAY-MDW, DSM-STL, ICT-STL, EWR-LAS, EWR-MCO, ICT-PHX,
EWR-DEN +1, EWR-MDW +1, DAL-MDW +1, SAN-SFO +1, SAN-SMF +1
DEL: FNT-BWI, DAY-BWI (GRR-BWI down to 1X), DSM-MDW, ICT-MDW, ICT-DAL, GRR-STL, CAK-LAS, CAK-MCO, CAK-TPA, HOU-EWR, GSP-HOU, BNA-EWR, RIC-MCO
from my perspective:
ADD: GSP-ATL
NOTE: GRR-MDW, FNT-MDW and GSP-ATL are 3X...DAY-MDW, STL-ICT, and STL-DSM are 2X
most of the changes involve ex-AirTran stations. Interesting to note since one A.net post speculated that they may be (intentionally?) trying one last effort before a mass closing of ex-AirTran stations. Another post notes that CAK-ATL is all that is left despite DOT reports stating that that was their WORST route in the past. Personally, I see this as Southwest refocusing on super shot haul routes with a better economy. as far as DSM and ICT are concerned, they never did well from MDW on either, and STL should be better. ICT-DAL is puzzling, but I suppose the feed wasn't worth it. The other thing to note is this schedule, other than Memorial Day Weekend, covers a gap in travel. School is still in and families have not begun their long distance summer travel yet. This is a time to try and establish routes. Perhaps this summer they are going to try to get families off the road and into the skies on shorter haul routes? Just my $0.02
Feel free to add any changes you find to this thread.
#2
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston (HOU/IAH)
Programs: WN, UA, DL, AA, Chase UR, Amex MR
Posts: 2,267
The poster whose post you are referencing on a.net is notoriously bearish on WN and often it seems like Southwest can do *nothing* right according to them. I'd take their commentary with a big chunk of salt.
Personally I'm disappointed at the loss of HOU-EWR. I'm one of those weirdos that thinks EWR is more convenient to Manhattan and am not too eager about being stuck with LGA going forward.
Personally I'm disappointed at the loss of HOU-EWR. I'm one of those weirdos that thinks EWR is more convenient to Manhattan and am not too eager about being stuck with LGA going forward.
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 616
The poster whose post you are referencing on a.net is notoriously bearish on WN and often it seems like Southwest can do *nothing* right according to them. I'd take their commentary with a big chunk of salt.
Personally I'm disappointed at the loss of HOU-EWR. I'm one of those weirdos that thinks EWR is more convenient to Manhattan and am not too eager about being stuck with LGA going forward.
Personally I'm disappointed at the loss of HOU-EWR. I'm one of those weirdos that thinks EWR is more convenient to Manhattan and am not too eager about being stuck with LGA going forward.
#4
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston (HOU/IAH)
Programs: WN, UA, DL, AA, Chase UR, Amex MR
Posts: 2,267
I do agree that it's puzzling that they are dropping STL for MDW for some stations while doing the exact opposit and dropping MDW for STL in others. My hunch would be that connecting the small Midwest stations to MDW would be the best bet to maximize connections and O/D. It *almost* seems like this release is incomplete and that those flights were omitted but I really don't think that's the case. Back when BKG was still around there was an erroneous release that showed it as having 0 flights leading many to believe that it was going to be dropped which was not the case, at least not at that moment. Of course it did eventually end up getting the hook but that was down the road a bit.
#6
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 366
Several of the route additions and deletions are very bizarre in my opinion.
However, the EWR changes maybe less bizarre and a result of underperformance. The EWR changes now emphasize a greater shift towards leisure flying (e.g. EWR-MCO and EWR-LAS, increase of EWR-MDW/DEN maybe for better connections to the West Coast). UA must be pleased that it has a monopoly on EWR-Houston, but the market was ignoring WN and choosing UA while WN competed. Doesn't WN have a significant frequent flier base on the Houston side? The EWR-BNA and EWR-HOU cuts might shift some connecting pax on to WN's new EWR-AUS schedule.
The RIC-MCO cut might be because B6 is on the route and the market might be too small for both WN and B6 to battle it out.
As far as the other small market route cuts/additions, they do seem very bizarre to me.
GSP-ATL is going to be entirely connections. Using ATL: it's a major hassle going through this airport, and not really worthwhile for short-haul. The drive between these cities is 2.5 hours. WN might be able to get some pax to go on GSP-ATL-CUN but these passengers could have done GSP-BWI-CUN albeit somewhat of a backtrack. For Florida, it might be more optimal than connecting in BWI, but I'd wager to guess majority of otherwise leisure passengers end up driving to Florida from South Carolina.
I'm surprised WN isn't doing well on GRR-BWI though, and cut the schedule to 1x daily. There is no GRR-DCA competing service around also which should have helped demand for WN's flight.
Looking for optimism:
Maybe there is a chance Southwest would switch it to GRR-DCA as a 2x daily as that would be more central for GRR pax heading to Washington, DC. If AA adds GRR-DCA before WN, then I'd guess WN would cut GRR-BWI entirely without that replacement.
Also, maybe Southwest will finally get into CVG and add CVG-BWI. It could be on CVG-BWI and maybe LAS, while keeping DAY for MDW.
My guess also is GSP and CAK seem most vulnerable for station closure. WN could augment CLT and CLE after that happens. Maybe WN is holding off on the DAL situation to be settled, before cutting more stations out of it's network which otherwise sends a bad image.
However, the EWR changes maybe less bizarre and a result of underperformance. The EWR changes now emphasize a greater shift towards leisure flying (e.g. EWR-MCO and EWR-LAS, increase of EWR-MDW/DEN maybe for better connections to the West Coast). UA must be pleased that it has a monopoly on EWR-Houston, but the market was ignoring WN and choosing UA while WN competed. Doesn't WN have a significant frequent flier base on the Houston side? The EWR-BNA and EWR-HOU cuts might shift some connecting pax on to WN's new EWR-AUS schedule.
The RIC-MCO cut might be because B6 is on the route and the market might be too small for both WN and B6 to battle it out.
As far as the other small market route cuts/additions, they do seem very bizarre to me.
GSP-ATL is going to be entirely connections. Using ATL: it's a major hassle going through this airport, and not really worthwhile for short-haul. The drive between these cities is 2.5 hours. WN might be able to get some pax to go on GSP-ATL-CUN but these passengers could have done GSP-BWI-CUN albeit somewhat of a backtrack. For Florida, it might be more optimal than connecting in BWI, but I'd wager to guess majority of otherwise leisure passengers end up driving to Florida from South Carolina.
I'm surprised WN isn't doing well on GRR-BWI though, and cut the schedule to 1x daily. There is no GRR-DCA competing service around also which should have helped demand for WN's flight.
Looking for optimism:
Maybe there is a chance Southwest would switch it to GRR-DCA as a 2x daily as that would be more central for GRR pax heading to Washington, DC. If AA adds GRR-DCA before WN, then I'd guess WN would cut GRR-BWI entirely without that replacement.
Also, maybe Southwest will finally get into CVG and add CVG-BWI. It could be on CVG-BWI and maybe LAS, while keeping DAY for MDW.
My guess also is GSP and CAK seem most vulnerable for station closure. WN could augment CLT and CLE after that happens. Maybe WN is holding off on the DAL situation to be settled, before cutting more stations out of it's network which otherwise sends a bad image.
Last edited by beyondhere; Oct 27, 2015 at 10:15 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 586
As a DSM flyer, albeit mostly on leisure so not too frequent, this is a bit surprising and disappointing. The a.net thread suggests that DSM won't last too much longer as a WN destination. Honestly, I thought it was a bit in the other direction and that WN was doing fairly decent in DSM.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,320
Bummer. There is no new international routes & a new city. Oh well! What I should can do now?
Here is the press release & PDF schedule extension:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/wp-cont...click-here.pdf
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/april-2...ere-no-foolin/
Here is the press release & PDF schedule extension:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/wp-cont...click-here.pdf
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/april-2...ere-no-foolin/
#9
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: CLE
Programs: UA, AA Plat Pro, DL, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 477
Let us just say that airline mergers have not been kind to the Greater Cleveland area airports as far as non-stop destinations are concerned.
#10
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: AA Plat Pto, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,536
The rebalance to MDW adds more connectivity. Previously from MSP, DAY and GRR were "you can't get there from here". Since MDW is at capacity you have to drop some flights to add.
#12
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 366
As a DSM flyer, albeit mostly on leisure so not too frequent, this is a bit surprising and disappointing. The a.net thread suggests that DSM won't last too much longer as a WN destination. Honestly, I thought it was a bit in the other direction and that WN was doing fairly decent in DSM.
WN could add DSM-BWI. It looks like AA's DSM-DCA is just a single daily flight, and in April, it departs at 4:40pm and arrives at DCA at 8:01pm. Maybe WN could add a morning flight out of DSM to BWI, which would make it better for DSM passengers going into DC area, and that timed flight would like permit some connections to eastern US cities (like PVD, MHT, RDU, CLT) from the BWI hub, that MDW once offered.
Given that WN is the largest carrier now in DEN and has the strength on that side with connections and frequent flier base, DSM-DEN would also make sense IMO.
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,733
For those of you thinking there might be more cuts/adds, I know a couple of months back they announced similar cuts/switches for LIT. We lost MDW and BWI and gained back STL. So this release sounds just like a continuation of the switches they started making previously.
#14
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 586
WN might be looking to find a niche on DSM-STL, while DSM-CHI was covered by two other airlines. However, connectivity will suffer as places like PVD become not available through STL but were available through MDW.
WN could add DSM-BWI. It looks like AA's DSM-DCA is just a single daily flight, and in April, it departs at 4:40pm and arrives at DCA at 8:01pm. Maybe WN could add a morning flight out of DSM to BWI, which would make it better for DSM passengers going into DC area, and that timed flight would like permit some connections to eastern US cities (like PVD, MHT, RDU, CLT) from the BWI hub, that MDW once offered.
Given that WN is the largest carrier now in DEN and has the strength on that side with connections and frequent flier base, DSM-DEN would also make sense IMO.
WN could add DSM-BWI. It looks like AA's DSM-DCA is just a single daily flight, and in April, it departs at 4:40pm and arrives at DCA at 8:01pm. Maybe WN could add a morning flight out of DSM to BWI, which would make it better for DSM passengers going into DC area, and that timed flight would like permit some connections to eastern US cities (like PVD, MHT, RDU, CLT) from the BWI hub, that MDW once offered.
Given that WN is the largest carrier now in DEN and has the strength on that side with connections and frequent flier base, DSM-DEN would also make sense IMO.
BWI does make a lot of sense but I'm not going to hold my breath.