uastarflyer

Ah so now that makes sense. It is needling Jet Blue.

Smisek of course is undeniably the worst.

FCfree

While I *LUV* Southwest for their limited number of fees, and hope that they keep no bag fees and no change fees forever, I personally would rather pay for bag #2 than pay a change fee. For me, I enjoy being able to re-price my tickets and be able to adjust my schedule after purchase without change fees. Just my opinion.

joshua362

And its a good opinion.

As the divide between WN and the rest of the industry widens, its going to be harder and harder not to succumb to investor pressure like JetBlue did, IMO.

I hope not but we've seen WN is NOT above doing something sneaky like adding so many flights WITHOUT corresponding capacity that it inconvenienced a nation for almost a year!

joshua362

Funny how marketing IT is so quick to change something yet operationally (password fiasco) they can ignore something and not feel guilty about it...

exwannabe

Assigned seating would be a game changer for me, even if I had to pay. But this simply can not be mixed with the existing system (w/o some huge cost like placing "reserved seat" cards).

Bags do not matter for me, would not check even if free. I travel with a backpack and very small laptop bag.

FWAAA

A few years ago, GK said that "bags fly free" resulted in several hundred million dollars of additional revenue for Southwest - passengers that chose to fly WN instead of the "bags cost lots of $$$" competition.

I can't imagine that the incremental passengers attracted by "bags fly free" didn't bring with them a plethora of checked bags. Why would "bags fly free" attract significant numbers of "carry-on only" passengers?

If GK's claim was honest, then WN most certainly was carrying more checked bags per passenger than before the legacies began charging for bags.

Lately, WN has been attracting the same domestic fares as the legacy competition, based on the DOT fare data (from a 10% sample of domestic fares between city-pairs). That tells me that WN is leaving a few hundred million dollars on the table, because the legacies are getting the same domestic fares PLUS the checked bag fees.

"Bags fly free" will cause "kitchen-sink" travelers to choose WN over the legacies, but WN isn't getting paid for those bags. Egalitarian policies might make people feel good, but they may not be economically rational or the most profitable. WN's bizarre attempts to monetize early boarding privileges has gutted its long-standing policies of "everyone's equal," so assigned seating/extra legroom seating for additional $$$ might as well be adopted if WN wishes to compete.

pinniped

Isn't it possible that a higher load of checked bags is actually good for WN? I think of the standard fiasco that is boarding a legacy mainline jet, everybody carrying on the kitchen sink and trying to fit it into overhead bins. Inevitably, there's more time spent by people looking for places to stow bags far away from their seat, and then time at the end gate-checking bags after there's no hope of getting them into overhead bins at all.

WN doesn't seem to have this fiasco...at least not that I've ever seen. I spend most of my WN flights in Row 17 or 18 (regardless of my BP number), so I would think I'd see the gate-checking in the C group if that was happening. A little jockeying for optimal bin space here and there, but never a case where 10-20 bags have to get tagged and sent down below 2 minutes before pushback. That happens on US Airways all the time.

Thus, if the rampers can keep up, and passengers can stow fewer carry-ons and get into their seats more quickly, WN can turn around planes faster than a legacy can. Seems like that's good for business...

3Cforme

IMHO, you're working double-time to rationalize WN's choice.

Turns can be faster (and there's a value to that in higher aircraft utilization - planes at the gate don't make money), but carrying weight on an aircraft isn't free (and FWAAA argues that heavy packers will disproportionately be attracted to WN). Labor to load and unload bags isn't free, either.

rsteinmetz70112

Cranky has some more information on JetBLue Changes

pinniped

Well, I didn't really work *that* hard.

Well, airfare isn't free either. We've paid for checked bags as part of our fares since the dawn of commercial aviation. And heavy packers have probably *already* been attracted to WN for a few years now, as their biggest competition nationwide is the Legacy-3 oligopoly, not JetBlue.

Would it shock me if WN want to a 1-checked-bag policy? No. They could still run their "Bag Flies Free" commercials and frankly, one 50-lb bag per traveler would likely satisfy 90% of their passengers. I'm just saying there are *some* advantages to not having the carry-on free-for-all that you see on the legacies.

Even at the very start of the baggage fees a few years back, I was understanding of and supportive of the idea that people can fly with less stuff, reducing fuel usage across the industry to the benefit of all. I naively thought competition might lead to a one 20-kg bag per person middle ground. Then I realized that the lack of competition just leads to higher airfares, higher fees, and really nothing good for the passenger.

So yes, I kind of hope WN keeps the "free" bags, both for flights when I want to check bags and for flights where I just want a sane boarding process.

toomanybooks

143 people, each with an extra max 50-pound checked bag, means 7150 pounds at most. Fully loaded 737 is something like 142000 pounds.

5% absolute max, usually more like 2%. Drop in the bucket fuel-wise.

nsx

Absolutely. The overhead bins already fill up on some flights. With bag fees they would fill on practically every flight, causing 5 to 10 minutes' delay per flight. That's a serious reduction in efficiency.

lougord99

Or the ridiculous practice of US that anyone with a boarding pass in zone 4 or higher must check their bags at the gate, regardless of whether the bins are full or not.

mile ho

I'm still not over that one. Makes me mad when I think about it, especially because they let it go on so long. Shameful.

murrieta

I do not see how WN could charge for bags without upgrading their product.

No 'economy-plus' seats. No first or business class. Fares that are certainly not the lowest in many cases. No assigned seats. Paying extra for early-bird or checking in exactly at T-24 to avoid middle seats.

No change fees is very nice. No stand-by on the day of the flight is very un-nice.

Just my 2 cents.