Family Asked To Leave Southwest Flight After Tweet
Jul 23, 2014, 10:51 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 24
She was clearly not physically threatened.
And her act to remove the passenger is tantamount to a lie.
Today, in a visible public service position, in this new social media world, it is a given that you have ceded your anonymity. That's just a fait accompli.
End result: Lousy PR for WN and a reinforcement of the sense that the old WN experience continues to fade and morph into being just another Legacy airline with .....y employees....
And yes, the guy sounds like a bit of Richard, but pulling him off the flight??? On a scale of 1 to 10 his actions are a 4, and hers a 25.
Okay, now for the Type A, engineer personality, rule worshippers, to resume saying this action was just fine....
And her act to remove the passenger is tantamount to a lie.
Today, in a visible public service position, in this new social media world, it is a given that you have ceded your anonymity. That's just a fait accompli.
End result: Lousy PR for WN and a reinforcement of the sense that the old WN experience continues to fade and morph into being just another Legacy airline with .....y employees....
And yes, the guy sounds like a bit of Richard, but pulling him off the flight??? On a scale of 1 to 10 his actions are a 4, and hers a 25.
Okay, now for the Type A, engineer personality, rule worshippers, to resume saying this action was just fine....
Jul 23, 2014, 10:52 am
#33
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Diego
Programs: Star, Oneworld, Skymiles, SPG
Posts: 243
Wow, I don't know what all of you responders are on - the GA was out of line and I would have severely punished her for her behavior if I was her supervisor.
It's unclear whether the GA let them board with the father's boarding group or with theirs - probably, the latter, which caused the remark from the Dad. I see nothing wrong with the remark he made. He said she was the rudest agent and identified her by name and gate. When you complain about someone, you want them to be identified, so proper action is taken. The GA TOTALLY overacted by considering that to be a threat and DEMANDING to have the tweet deleted or have the passengers removed. She was so on a power trip - I don't know Kimberly S's track record but if it were me, I would fire her for that. She clearly overstepped.
Now, if she wants to sue the passenger for defamation for calling her "the rudest agent", go ahead, that's totally fine. But I doubt she'd win anything on such a lawsuit.
It's unclear whether the GA let them board with the father's boarding group or with theirs - probably, the latter, which caused the remark from the Dad. I see nothing wrong with the remark he made. He said she was the rudest agent and identified her by name and gate. When you complain about someone, you want them to be identified, so proper action is taken. The GA TOTALLY overacted by considering that to be a threat and DEMANDING to have the tweet deleted or have the passengers removed. She was so on a power trip - I don't know Kimberly S's track record but if it were me, I would fire her for that. She clearly overstepped.
Now, if she wants to sue the passenger for defamation for calling her "the rudest agent", go ahead, that's totally fine. But I doubt she'd win anything on such a lawsuit.
Jul 23, 2014, 10:54 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: FLL -> Where The Boyars Are
Programs: AA EXP 1.7 M, Hilton Gold, Hertz 5*, AARP Sophomore, 14-time Croix de Candlestick
Posts: 18,669
He is free to say what he wants, but there is a proper way to file a complaint and get it handled. People think they can say whatever and get away with it, sorry it doesn't work that way. You are free to say what you will, but that doesn't mean you get away without any repercussions.
Simply said, actions have consequences - users of social media and other "look-at-me" telecommunications methodologies need to realize that they're not exempt.
Jul 23, 2014, 10:55 am
#35
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Have we seen anywhere what the actual tweet said? The linked story includes a quote from the man that his tweet said "something to the effect of...." I'd be curious to see how close "something" is to the actual tweet.
I checked his twitter account and the tweet in question has been deleted so we may never know what was actually said.
I checked his twitter account and the tweet in question has been deleted so we may never know what was actually said.
I think there must have been a heated verbal confrontation not described in the story.
That said no one has the right to demand any tweet be deleted as a condition of service, however I find the passengers account highly suspect.
Jul 23, 2014, 10:57 am
#36
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
Programs: DL PM/MM, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia, National ECE, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,579
There must be more to this story because I don't for one second believe the Southwest employee who told him his kids couldn't cut in line, the Southwest employee who read the tweet, the Southwest employee who removed him from the plane, and the Southwest employee who told him to delete the tweet are all the same employee. It seems to me the most obvious explanation is that someone in a supervisory role was alerted to this tweet and recognized that this passenger publicly disparaging a gate agent for simply enforcing the rules is not acceptable behavior. Customers do not have carte blanche to do and say what they want just because they are customers. As I said before the worst thing I think Southwest did was to tell him he could fly if he deleted the tweet, they should have just refunded his money and been done with him.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:11 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,192
WN should just refund people's money and tell them to have a nice day. They look stupid creating a media situation and then giving the guy $150.
Wait, are they going to mess with me now for calling them stupid?
Cool, a chemistry word used in a creative way!
Yeah, weird how fast this all happened.
Wait, are they going to mess with me now for calling them stupid?
Yeah, weird how fast this all happened.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:20 am
#39
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
Have we seen anywhere what the actual tweet said? The linked story includes a quote from the man that his tweet said "something to the effect of...." I'd be curious to see how close "something" is to the actual tweet.
I checked his twitter account and the tweet in question has been deleted so we may never know what was actually said.
I checked his twitter account and the tweet in question has been deleted so we may never know what was actually said.
I think there must have been a heated verbal confrontation not described in the story.
That said no one has the right to demand any tweet be deleted as a condition of service, however I find the passengers account highly suspect.
Watson and the agent had a disagreement before boarding initially.
...
“In leaving I said, you know, ‘Real nice way to treat an A-list. I’ll be sure to tweet about it,’” he said.
...
“In leaving I said, you know, ‘Real nice way to treat an A-list. I’ll be sure to tweet about it,’” he said.
And, what did the pax say during the "disagreement"? Perhaps he was a bit more aggressive/threatening than he lets on.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:21 am
#40
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
First post!
"Freedom of speech" is irrelevant here because Southwest is not the government. Private entities do not owe you the 'freedom' to say what you want. The First Amendment only offers protection from government prohibitions on speech.
Not agreeing with the extent of the GA's actions (though I would have been annoyed if she DID allow his children to board in front of others in line), but not a free speech issue.
Not agreeing with the extent of the GA's actions (though I would have been annoyed if she DID allow his children to board in front of others in line), but not a free speech issue.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:32 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Entitled person tries to break the rules, gets mad at GA who prevents it, then the GA way overreacts to the situation and forces the pax to delete a tweet in order to board a later flight.
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they reboard.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
FYI: Pax posted to FaceBook about the incident yesterday:
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they reboard.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
FYI: Pax posted to FaceBook about the incident yesterday:
Last edited by ursine1; Jul 23, 2014 at 12:00 pm Reason: corrected reboarding same flight
Jul 23, 2014, 11:46 am
#42
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
Programs: DL PM/MM, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia, National ECE, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,579
Entitled person tries to break the rules, gets mad at GA who prevents it, then the GA way overreacts to the situation and forces the pax to delete a tweet in order to board a later flight.
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they board a later flight.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they board a later flight.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
That explanation (in particular that he 'kept this off social media') does not seem consistent with the other versions of events.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:47 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 425
Entitled person tries to break the rules, gets mad at GA who prevents it, then the GA way overreacts to the situation and forces the pax to delete a tweet in order to board a later flight.
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they board a later flight.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
FYI: Pax posted to FaceBook about the incident yesterday:
Wrong on both sides of the fence, but ultimately the GA is at fault for not de-escalating the situation, and instead making things way worse.
From the reports, it appears the A-lister tried to board with his kids in his A position (no info about what the kid's positions were). He's told to board in the kids positions by the GA, who may or may not have been rude about it. He says he'll tweet about the experience, and does -- mentioning the GA by name. He boards with the kids.
GA comes on plane and removes family, says she'll call cops if non-compliant. Family de-boards and pax is told he must delete the tweet in order to board later flight. He does and they board a later flight.
Pax contacts WN regarding the experience, is dissatisfied with response, takes it public.
FYI: Pax posted to FaceBook about the incident yesterday:
Jul 23, 2014, 11:55 am
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: VA
Programs: Marriott: LTP
Posts: 387
I can't verify the sequence of events since I wasn't there, but the article indicates the following:
1. Dad and kids tried to board with Dad's A list boarding position and ops agent refused them.
But a gate agent wouldn’t let his 6-year-old and 9-year-old board with him — so they’d all have to wait to board later.
2. Dad had words with ops agent and threatened to send a tweet regarding his dissatisfaction with the situation.
“In leaving I said, you know, ‘Real nice way to treat an A-list. I’ll be sure to tweet about it,’” he said.
3. Dad and kids boarded and were seated on the plane.
4. Dad sent out a tweet specifying the gate and the individual involved (I don't know if the Dad used first and last name and the article abbreviated the last name to just the initial of the last name.)
“Something to the effect of, ‘Wow, rudest agent in Denver. (Name deleted), gate C39, not happy @SWA,’” he said.
5. I believe SWA monitors twitter--looking for messages that refer to Southwest. Maybe the ops agent monitors twitter--I don't know.
6. Dad and kids were removed from the plane and agent threatened them with calling law enforcement if the tweet was not deleted.
Soon after getting to their seats, the family of three was asked to leave the plane.
Watson’s daughter, Lucy, said she feared for her father.
“She said ‘I’m going to call the cops,’” Lucy said. “I like thought something bad was going to happen, like my dad being in jail.”
7. The Dad removed the tweet.
8. Dad and kids re-boarded the flight and arrived at their destination.
Seriously, though, I have stood behind folks who have had several children board with Dad's (or Mom's) boarding position. Dad (or Mom) hold the stack with their BP on top. I can see both sides of this issue. This is kind of what my mental conversation is when I see this happen---On one hand, it is a violation of the rules. But, if you travel with anyone it is as if you have no status. Sure, you could let your children board on their own at their own boarding position--who is going to do that? What if there is an issue with the boarding pass when it is being scanned in (after you have already been seated on the plane)? Are they going to come and get you from your seat on the plane? And, I know the kids won't be seated in the exit rows. Plus, I don't want to sit next to the Dad (or Mom), anyway.
The other question on my mind is what if Dad had tweeted his remarks after the plane had arrived at the destination? Did he break a law?
1. Dad and kids tried to board with Dad's A list boarding position and ops agent refused them.
But a gate agent wouldn’t let his 6-year-old and 9-year-old board with him — so they’d all have to wait to board later.
2. Dad had words with ops agent and threatened to send a tweet regarding his dissatisfaction with the situation.
“In leaving I said, you know, ‘Real nice way to treat an A-list. I’ll be sure to tweet about it,’” he said.
3. Dad and kids boarded and were seated on the plane.
4. Dad sent out a tweet specifying the gate and the individual involved (I don't know if the Dad used first and last name and the article abbreviated the last name to just the initial of the last name.)
“Something to the effect of, ‘Wow, rudest agent in Denver. (Name deleted), gate C39, not happy @SWA,’” he said.
5. I believe SWA monitors twitter--looking for messages that refer to Southwest. Maybe the ops agent monitors twitter--I don't know.
6. Dad and kids were removed from the plane and agent threatened them with calling law enforcement if the tweet was not deleted.
Soon after getting to their seats, the family of three was asked to leave the plane.
Watson’s daughter, Lucy, said she feared for her father.
“She said ‘I’m going to call the cops,’” Lucy said. “I like thought something bad was going to happen, like my dad being in jail.”
7. The Dad removed the tweet.
8. Dad and kids re-boarded the flight and arrived at their destination.
Seriously, though, I have stood behind folks who have had several children board with Dad's (or Mom's) boarding position. Dad (or Mom) hold the stack with their BP on top. I can see both sides of this issue. This is kind of what my mental conversation is when I see this happen---On one hand, it is a violation of the rules. But, if you travel with anyone it is as if you have no status. Sure, you could let your children board on their own at their own boarding position--who is going to do that? What if there is an issue with the boarding pass when it is being scanned in (after you have already been seated on the plane)? Are they going to come and get you from your seat on the plane? And, I know the kids won't be seated in the exit rows. Plus, I don't want to sit next to the Dad (or Mom), anyway.
The other question on my mind is what if Dad had tweeted his remarks after the plane had arrived at the destination? Did he break a law?