N830MH

Actually, this is ETOPS overwater certified standard. Yes, they are require the ETOPS overwater from California to Hawaii.

No, they doesn't need leasing the entire 752 aircraft. Because WN does not want to get 757-200 aircraft. Only 737 aircraft.

Yes, I think they have wait for 738MAX to come online sometime in year of 2017. The entire 738MAX has more range, more fuel efficient and more capabilities.

kerflumexed

I wasn't being clear. I meant that Caribbean and other similar near-international destinations do not require ETOPs. So I was not referring to HI.

Scotty's observation is correct in that SWA has always wanted to keep to a single fleet type. The one deviation is when they leased some 727's in the wake of the Braniff bankruptcy. A friend of mine was hired as a flight engineer for that plane. Herb later said he would never do that again.

There were some rumors years ago about adding 757's to the fleet, but of course it was just that. The complexity of multiple aircraft types is huge. When Pan Am started to go through a growth spurt around 1989, one retiring captain would result in about 15 training events as pilots moved up in seniority from right seat to left seat and from small aircraft to larger aircraft, paying more $$$. It was an expensive process plus the extra simulators for each airplane, the different manuals and procedures, instructors, and the list goes on.

So part of the brilliance of Herb was to stress simplicity. This was something that Bob Crandall publicly said about HDK and how he was able to keep costs low: No reserved seats, no meals, no FC, and the list goes on.

LegalTender

Was pretty much already aware WN operates a 737-only fleet.

Asking whether, in hindsight, and given today's competitive imperatives on proposed HI routes, that leasing/buying 752s might have made sense.

PA42

The crews factually know nothing about future route plans. Everything that comes from them is speculation. Period. End of story.

toomanybooks

Wow, that is a brutal day.

toomanybooks

What I know about aircraft is pretty minimal, but would it make sense for WN to operate some smaller aircraft specifically intra-Hawaii?

The planes wouldn't be coming back to the mainland, so no need for 737s to match the rest of the fleet. Have all the parts, mechanics, etc. in Hawaii.

nsx

That sounds like something Herb might have done!

Arrrr! It's true that their IT staff is short of the resources necessary to do everything that needs to be done.

I find it very hard to believe that Herb would have approved bag fees. It would be completely out of character, like Mary Poppins doing a topless scene. Oh, wait...

I also find it hard to believe that Herb did not agree with the AirTran deal or that he would complain about trends caused by outside forces, by slower growth as the low-hanging fruit is picked clean, and by an aging workforce. No management can avoid these trends, although bankruptcy can reset labor costs.

I find it easy to believe that the new interior is unpopular with Herb and the board. Customers tend to dislike change, so when you make a change it had better be a good one. This one has been very unpopular. Personally, I don't detest the new interior, but it's noticeably inferior to the old one.

That last sentence rings true. The management at OAK refused to staff all the gates early in the morning, causing major delays to my early morning flight for most of the summer. Until then I had had over 12 years of weekly morning flights with almost no delays. It would have only taken 3 or 4 extra employees to fix that problem, but customer service was not at the top of their priority list. That's new, and it's troubling.

As others have noted here in recent years, and as I have posted, Southwest's labor costs are becoming a disadvantage rather than an advantage. In the airline industry, bankruptcy is the only way labor costs have ever been reset. I'm not sure exactly why that is. If Herb or anyone else has a better method to reset labor costs, that would be a breakthrough worthy of the Southwest name.

MrMan

Actually the FA's love it. Lots of hours in one trip. More time at home with the kids. She said "I have been to Hawaii a hundred times, but have never gotten off the plane."

formeraa

Exactly! I remember talking to some FA's at NW back in the day. They would do the 9:30pm MSP-SEA flight and return on the 1am SEA-MSP flight. They would fix the family dinner, leave for the airport, and be back in time for breakfast.

While Hawaii-West Coast is a bit longer, the concept is the same. Fly out in the evening, back on the redeye or fly out in the morning and back on the afternoon flight. It's similar to nurses or other medical professionals working a 12-hour shift.

3Cforme

WN managed this for years with rapid growth. New people at bottom of the scale bring down the average wage. As you noted, the low-hanging fruit for the route network may be mostly gone. The fraction of staff at the top of the scale grows relentlessly.

WN should have been growing into Mexico (see how CO/UA expanded since the late 90s), a natural for the route network given strengths in SoCal, PHX, HOU, DAL and others; and the Caribbean (look at all the Jet Blue service). Lack of IT and historic unwillingness to pursue ETOPS critically stunted the airline.

lougord99

I thought that was what they would do with some of the 717's.

N830MH

No, not anymore. DL has already acquired the 717s aircraft. Because they doesn't want to kept the 717s aircraft for any much longer.

N830MH

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/s...awaii-jwa.html

WN will possibly to start nonstop SNA-Hawaii flight but, there is no official announcement yet.

After they lost AQ back in April 2008. Also, CO didn't workout very well last time and it costs $1,000 ticket. It went through IAH-SNA-OGG.

Let's the speculation begin.

rmadisonwi

What kind of money is there for intra-Hawaii service? There are already two (or three?) carriers providing competition intra-Hawaii, and I doubt the market could really support too many more.

The better idea would be for them to finally implement a new reservations system (isn't that in the pipeline?) that can handle codeshares, and tack a WN code onto one of the existing carriers to feed whatever HI-mainland flights they decide to launch.

Otherwise, you're basically talking about starting a new, (and for all intents and purposes) completely separate airline.

TSparky

From the OC Register
So which is it? I know nothing about the various 737 models performance, so if someone can enlighten me?