Reborn! Southwest is matching Frontier status and up to 50k miles (Wisconsin only)
Jun 21, 2012, 5:21 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,459
I think if you look at it from Delta's point of view, a lot of the questions are answered.
Delta is taking over a liability of Frontier's, and they are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Altough we don't know what sort of financial or asset consideration (if any) Frontier is giving Delta to take over the obligation of millions of frequent flyer miles, it's safe to say this is a specific, focused initiative on Delta's part.
Delta is only doing this because they see a rather unusual opportunity in Milwaukee to make significant inroads in the frequent flyer base.
(a) Frequent travelers primiarly invested in F9 are orphans looking for a home
(b) Frequent travelers primarily invsted in FL are especially vulnerable to poaching because of the uncoventional takeover they face from Southwest. Delta has probably already see benefit in Atlanta and sees opportunity in MKE.
Although other cities have been de-hubbed too (some fairly quickly and some more gradually), in most cases the legacy airline still stuck around with a few dozen flights to hubs and key point-to-point destinations. Think AA in St Louis, for example. But in Milwaukee, Frontier is unable and disinterested in continuing to serve the base, and so lots of flyers are trying to decide who to concentrate their flying with.
Delta isn't particularly interested in encouraging Frontier customers to come their direction by essentially comping them frequent flyer miles. Delta is interested in encouraging Frontier Milwaukee customers to come their direction. The special circumstances and unusual vulnerability are the key making it worth the effort and expense.
Delta is taking over a liability of Frontier's, and they are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Altough we don't know what sort of financial or asset consideration (if any) Frontier is giving Delta to take over the obligation of millions of frequent flyer miles, it's safe to say this is a specific, focused initiative on Delta's part.
Delta is only doing this because they see a rather unusual opportunity in Milwaukee to make significant inroads in the frequent flyer base.
(a) Frequent travelers primiarly invested in F9 are orphans looking for a home
(b) Frequent travelers primarily invsted in FL are especially vulnerable to poaching because of the uncoventional takeover they face from Southwest. Delta has probably already see benefit in Atlanta and sees opportunity in MKE.
Although other cities have been de-hubbed too (some fairly quickly and some more gradually), in most cases the legacy airline still stuck around with a few dozen flights to hubs and key point-to-point destinations. Think AA in St Louis, for example. But in Milwaukee, Frontier is unable and disinterested in continuing to serve the base, and so lots of flyers are trying to decide who to concentrate their flying with.
Delta isn't particularly interested in encouraging Frontier customers to come their direction by essentially comping them frequent flyer miles. Delta is interested in encouraging Frontier Milwaukee customers to come their direction. The special circumstances and unusual vulnerability are the key making it worth the effort and expense.
Jun 21, 2012, 5:31 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,398
I know Delta used to allow you to donate miles to the Red Cross and the red cross could use those miles to transport volunteers and some medical charities where they would transport patients and their families. It would probably still be costing frontier money if this is how their charity program works since the charity is going to use the miles and some of their customers may not ever use their miles or if someone doesn't have enough miles for a ticket and donates them....
Jun 21, 2012, 8:32 pm
#18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,638
I thought it was the former, a cash payment by F9. After all, not every charity has a use for miles. But I could have been wrong.
If it's the latter, presumably with the miles aggregated from all donating members, then the liability is deferred until redemption. I don't know what would happen if a charity receives a total amount that is insufficient for even one redemption.
If it's the latter, presumably with the miles aggregated from all donating members, then the liability is deferred until redemption. I don't know what would happen if a charity receives a total amount that is insufficient for even one redemption.
The Make-A-Wish Foundation® needs more than 2.5 billion miles, or 50,000 round-trip tickets, to grant wishes each year. Every mile donated helps wish kids and their families travel to destinations around the world. Once donated, your miles will never expire and are used to support wishes across the country. This is just one simple way you can help grant a life-changing wish experience.
Last edited by mke9499; Jun 21, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Jun 21, 2012, 9:08 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,653
+1
From what I've heard, donated miles are indeed miles and not cash. They can be banked and used for air transportation by the charity.
As for Frontier not being listed by Make-A-Wish, I wonder if they're so on the ball that they quickly updated their website based on Frontier's program suspension yesterday? Or is Frontier so relatively small to them that they weren't listed on MAW's website in the first place.
From what I've heard, donated miles are indeed miles and not cash. They can be banked and used for air transportation by the charity.
As for Frontier not being listed by Make-A-Wish, I wonder if they're so on the ball that they quickly updated their website based on Frontier's program suspension yesterday? Or is Frontier so relatively small to them that they weren't listed on MAW's website in the first place.
Jun 21, 2012, 9:52 pm
#20
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I think it is a bad PR move on F9's part to suspend this program, especially if only Milwaukee members were being targeted.
I understand how Delta would have gotten F9's email list if they are working with them, but would like to know how WN acquired it.
I understand how Delta would have gotten F9's email list if they are working with them, but would like to know how WN acquired it.
Jun 22, 2012, 9:38 am
#22
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: National Capitol Region
Programs: Delta Dirt Medallion,AA,USairways, WN Rapid Rewards, National Emerald Club
Posts: 3,912
It's a PR disaster for Frontier. Southwest whipped Frontier competively fair and square.
IMO it's a sore loser move by Frontier as it exits the MKE marketplace. Kudos to Southwest.
IMO it's a sore loser move by Frontier as it exits the MKE marketplace. Kudos to Southwest.
Jun 22, 2012, 9:40 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: National Capitol Region
Programs: Delta Dirt Medallion,AA,USairways, WN Rapid Rewards, National Emerald Club
Posts: 3,912
Frontier's doing a pretty good job losing money on its own.
Last edited by hazelrah; Jun 23, 2012 at 2:54 am
Jun 22, 2012, 10:06 am
#24
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,398
Delta should have done a status match as well to help get some of the customers. As a Delta FF though I am glad they didn't since their are too many people with status as it is and it would only make getting upgraded harder.
This could help Delta out though. Seeing people aren't getting miles on WN any longer, they can still get the miles transferred to their Delta account (even though RMD's aren't worth much).
Jun 22, 2012, 7:26 pm
#25
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,653
Anyone over here have thoughts on why Southwest rolled this out 15 days after the Delta deal was announced? It was essentially the same program AirTran used a few years ago against Midwest, so it's not like it should have taken so long to dream up. Even if Frontier had not snuffed this out by freezing the mile donation program, a lot of horses had already left the barn with Delta having that 15-day lead.
Jun 23, 2012, 9:37 pm
#26
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Delta is doing a status match for 90 days, during which time one must fly a minimum amount (8000 miles or 10 segments, I believe) to keep Silver status. Silver is worth something, but not all that much, on Delta in part because it's so relatively common. That's certainly the case here in Milwaukee.
Anyone over here have thoughts on why Southwest rolled this out 15 days after the Delta deal was announced? It was essentially the same program AirTran used a few years ago against Midwest, so it's not like it should have taken so long to dream up. Even if Frontier had not snuffed this out by freezing the mile donation program, a lot of horses had already left the barn with Delta having that 15-day lead.
Anyone over here have thoughts on why Southwest rolled this out 15 days after the Delta deal was announced? It was essentially the same program AirTran used a few years ago against Midwest, so it's not like it should have taken so long to dream up. Even if Frontier had not snuffed this out by freezing the mile donation program, a lot of horses had already left the barn with Delta having that 15-day lead.
Its possible WN's marketing dept had no idea about the DL offer until after it was rolled out but seems like they could have done something in a lot less time than 15 days if they would have done it as an offer for any F9 flyers in Milwaukee and not targeted.
Jun 24, 2012, 7:45 pm
#27
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MKE
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Gold
Posts: 205
I was hoping to sign up for the Frontier card for myself and the wife to then have SW match the bonus points offer.
Wondering if they'll reinstate the donation program a bit down the line, at least before the August 31st cut off of the F9 bonus points?
Wondering if they'll reinstate the donation program a bit down the line, at least before the August 31st cut off of the F9 bonus points?
Jun 26, 2012, 1:18 pm
#28
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,653
Southwest is now simply giving Wisconsin flyers credit for the miles in the EarlyReturns account, up to 50,000, simply for proving that they have this balance.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southw...191000930.html
It's nice to be fought over. Time for some serious double-dipping.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southw...191000930.html
It's nice to be fought over. Time for some serious double-dipping.