Is Hidden City still explicitly allowed?
Oct 17, 2011, 5:38 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards
Posts: 791
Is Hidden City still explicitly allowed?
It is a common statement here on FT that Southwest "explicitly allows" Hidden City bookings. In fact, the Wiki even claims:
The problem is, the CSC does not, in fact, say that. In fact, the word "hidden" does not appear in either the CSC: http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...commitment.pdf
nor the Contract of Carriage:
http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...f-carriage.pdf
Can anyone find a reference in either of these two documents to the practice of Hidden City booking that doesn't actually refer to it as Hidden City booking? If not, I think it's time to stop claiming that it's explicitly allowed, and prepare for the moment when they decide to start making it disallowed.
In case you were worried about getting caught breaking the rules, read this. The Customer Service Commitment document posted at southwest.com states "SWA does not prohibit or penalize what is commonly known as 'hidden city' ticketing, nor does it prohibit or penalize what is commonly known as 'back to back' ticketing. 'Hidden city' and 'back to back' reservations and tickets are authorized for travel on SWA." The two-step and similar variants are perfectly OK to 'fess up to on Southwest.
nor the Contract of Carriage:
http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...f-carriage.pdf
Can anyone find a reference in either of these two documents to the practice of Hidden City booking that doesn't actually refer to it as Hidden City booking? If not, I think it's time to stop claiming that it's explicitly allowed, and prepare for the moment when they decide to start making it disallowed.
Oct 17, 2011, 6:18 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,459
It absolutely was in the Customer Service Commitment, but you seem to be correct, it no longer is. It would seem that once again WN has quietly made a policy change without telling anyone.
While the Contract of Carriage is archived on the 'wayback machine', the customer service commitment does not seem to be, so I can't find when they made this change.
While the Contract of Carriage is archived on the 'wayback machine', the customer service commitment does not seem to be, so I can't find when they made this change.
Oct 17, 2011, 8:30 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,174
A Google search for the phrase "hidden city" on southwest.com turns up nothing.
Interesting. It just keeps getting worse, doesn't it?
By the way, Google search on a specific site is one of the most useful search techniques I know, and simple. In the present case, enter this into Google:
"hidden city" site:southwest.com
Interesting. It just keeps getting worse, doesn't it?
By the way, Google search on a specific site is one of the most useful search techniques I know, and simple. In the present case, enter this into Google:
"hidden city" site:southwest.com
Oct 17, 2011, 10:29 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
Knew this was happening sometime ago. It's getting harder and harder to even book hidden city tix. They've gotten better at closing the schedule to prohibit this trick. This is no accident.
I do have a couple hidden city tix booked and will report back after I've flown them as to how they post. Still a few months out.
I do have a couple hidden city tix booked and will report back after I've flown them as to how they post. Still a few months out.
Oct 19, 2011, 11:21 pm
#7
Moderator, Southwest Airlines and Choice Privileges
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,036
Web site reorganizations make it trickier to find stuff in the WayBackMachine, but it does have some copies of the old CSCs explicitly allowing hidden city bookings. I didn't do an exhaustive search, but here is one example from 14-Dec-2005 (pdf).
With respect to all of our fares, Southwest Airlines does not prohibit or penalize what is
commonly known as “hidden city” ticketing, nor does it prohibit or penalize what is
commonly known as “back to back” ticketing. “Hidden city” and “back to back”
reservations and tickets are authorized for travel on Southwest Airlines. It is important to
note that your luggage will be checked to the final destination shown on your ticket.
Should you choose to deplane at a stopover or connection point, you will be responsible
for making arrangements to have your luggage delivered to you. Southwest will not
entertain a lost or delayed baggage claim or interim expenses in this circumstance
commonly known as “hidden city” ticketing, nor does it prohibit or penalize what is
commonly known as “back to back” ticketing. “Hidden city” and “back to back”
reservations and tickets are authorized for travel on Southwest Airlines. It is important to
note that your luggage will be checked to the final destination shown on your ticket.
Should you choose to deplane at a stopover or connection point, you will be responsible
for making arrangements to have your luggage delivered to you. Southwest will not
entertain a lost or delayed baggage claim or interim expenses in this circumstance
Oct 19, 2011, 11:45 pm
#8
Moderator, Southwest Airlines and Choice Privileges
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,036
And here is the 10-10-10 version, which also includes the language explicitly allowing hidden city and back-to-back ticketing.
Sep 2, 2013, 11:16 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Appreciate everyone contributing! I will use my hidden city ticket purchased with points and ask the WN rep at the initial boarding gate to delete my second leg. The next day I fly WN out of the hidden city. Regarding the legacy carriers you are frequently advised to book with a different carrier when flying back out of your hidden city destination from the previous flight in. Based on everything that has been shared here, WN's COC does not expressly prohibit hidden city bookings (the only major airline that hasn't) though WN no longer explicated condones them. So my flying out of the hidden city on WN the next day shouldn't be an issue for them.
Last edited by Captain ZZ; Sep 2, 2013 at 11:42 pm
Sep 3, 2013, 5:10 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Appreciate everyone contributing! I will use my hidden city ticket purchased with points and ask the WN rep at the initial boarding gate to delete my second leg. The next day I fly WN out of the hidden city. Regarding the legacy carriers you are frequently advised to book with a different carrier when flying back out of your hidden city destination from the previous flight in. Based on everything that has been shared here, WN's COC does not expressly prohibit hidden city bookings (the only major airline that hasn't) though WN no longer explicated condones them. So my flying out of the hidden city on WN the next day shouldn't be an issue for them.
Sep 3, 2013, 9:47 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Hidden city is only allowed for proletariats. Make sure you qualify and are carrying your proletariat card.
Apr 15, 2016, 5:32 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BOS
Programs: JetBlue Mosaic, WN A List Preferred, Hyatt Globalest, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, IHG Spire
Posts: 3,966
Apr 2016 Res Says Hidden City is Harder
I found this thread just now because I want to fly from WAS to PWM tomorrow. It turns out if you book ISP/BWI/PWM on WN its about $150, but nonstops from WAS area to PWM are closer to $250.
I called WN and asked if they could delete a segment out of the PNR, and they said no.
They said that it used to be allowed not to board your 2nd connecting flight but if you did this on an RT the return would be cancelled.
If I don't board at ISP I imagine the system would cancel the downline space from BWI to PWM. Then I would have a 50 50 chance that the BWI station would just reinstate the ticket.
I am pretty risk tollerant with travel and I have really good luck with these sorts of things, but it might not be worth saving $100. Also another issue is with the change in WN no show policy technically by missing the flight in ISP my ticket would be voided out by WN's no show policy.
I still have an idea of a way to try this, but I figured I would report the data point.
I don't know back in the good old days when WN allowed hidden city if in this scenario they would have deleted the ISP to BWI segment upon request? I ask because usually in a hidden city scenario you are actually flying the first flight and not the 2nd like in this example.
I called WN and asked if they could delete a segment out of the PNR, and they said no.
They said that it used to be allowed not to board your 2nd connecting flight but if you did this on an RT the return would be cancelled.
If I don't board at ISP I imagine the system would cancel the downline space from BWI to PWM. Then I would have a 50 50 chance that the BWI station would just reinstate the ticket.
I am pretty risk tollerant with travel and I have really good luck with these sorts of things, but it might not be worth saving $100. Also another issue is with the change in WN no show policy technically by missing the flight in ISP my ticket would be voided out by WN's no show policy.
I still have an idea of a way to try this, but I figured I would report the data point.
I don't know back in the good old days when WN allowed hidden city if in this scenario they would have deleted the ISP to BWI segment upon request? I ask because usually in a hidden city scenario you are actually flying the first flight and not the 2nd like in this example.
Apr 15, 2016, 6:00 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Posts: 2,889
The poster to which you replied is trying to skip the first leg of a ticket (which is not HCT) instead of the last leg(s) (which is HCT) and it will not work. The poster could try HCT on the way back from PWM, though, if the price is right.
Apr 15, 2016, 9:12 am
#15
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 3,305
In the past you could recover value from the ticket by not boarding at ISP. This plan does not fit the profile of HCT, so it would surely leave you at BWI with a worthless boarding pass. The "no-show" policy is the trigger that foils this plan.