OPNLguy

I haven't seen any memos addressed to the F/A community (since I'm not one), so I can't personally attest to whether I felt it was condescending or not. As I remarked earlier, it's largely a matter of perspective, and individual F/A reactions may well be varied. Absent a tally of all FAs, I don't think anyone can speak for the entire group, Thom's understandable comments notwithstanding.

But, I digress. The hard nut of it all (still) is that what the guy did was patently wrong, he was called on it, and he's suffered adverse consequences as result (as have we all as SWA employees in the eyes of the public). Folks can, and will have differing opinions as to whether his punishment was too lax/too harsh under the circumstances, but ultimately that's not the call of anybody's but management. What the fallout of that call is on others is up to the individuals themselves.

As I see it, the guy's mistake (and it was a lulu) can still serve as an object lesson (to every employee) on how notto behave, and without seeing his head on a pike as at least some folks (not you, mind you) seem to prefer.

What I'm really scratching my head about are the hows/whys concerning an incident that happened three months ago (March) suddenly became news. As I mentioned in an earlier post, stuck mikes are not an uncommon occurence. I can't help but wonder if it would have made the news had they been discussing something (anything) else.

Cheers...

laxabq

Sure a lot of SWA employees on this site.

You can always pick up on their "slant".

mikeef

AFAIC, the "right" seat would be right at the end of the unemployment line.

Mike

tusphotog

Comparing this to the DL "let's play on our laptop" incident is like apples to oranges. Pilots blather on about all sorts of stuff up there not related to the flight--what restaurants are good, where the layover hotel is etc. I wouldn't say this crew lost situational awareness like the DL/NW crew did.

If he's smart, he'll just go back there and get it himself.

Perhaps, but we're only hearing what was sent out on the radio. Who knows what started the conversation. Perhaps the FO or jumpseat rider was talking about they he "nailed a hot HOU FA" or something? That being said, wouldn't you have loved to been a fly in the cockpit after they realized the mic was open?

Is this worse than a FA who sits in the jumpseat and rants to their coworkers about how awful a company is, how they're fed up with management or how they hate working with passengers in full view of the whole plane?

oreo2222

My question is what on earth did the guy who reported this get out of it? Who cares what pilots talk about on the flight deck.... People do this ALL the time. The mike got stuck, ok, and the traffic controller heard the conversation, so what? I don't see a security issue here? It just shows that some people like to stir trouble, whenever they get the chance. If the guy who gave the recording over feels good about himself, he should think again. l wonder if that guy can HONESTLY say that he has never criticized anyone? I don't see the big deal here. One just has to read the FT forums to know that goes on all the time. Tell tales are for young kids and people who don't have a life.

tusphotog

A Houston TV station filed a FOIA request for the ATC tapes. They probably got the tip from a WN FA or pilot who knew about it.

hat attack

If a tape was broadcast on network TV of a FA working a flight while making these remarks, you better believe she/he would be 'out of there'.

I think you understand that this is news now, because it is just now coming out in public. You keep implying this is about a stuck mic. Do you not realize, it's about the demeaning rant of the Captain? Of course, it wouldn't be news if they were discussing something innocuous.

texashoser

My $.02 is that the captain wasn't punished more severely due to language or lack of language in the pilots' union contract with WN. And while the pilot's language was reprehensible, the damage was little until it was put in the public sphere. Make no doubt that executive management wishes this guy were gone now. The animosity that is building up in social media not to mention with the FA's should not be underestimated. The pilot has disgraced himself and the airline.

But even if WN wanted to fire him now, it would be almost impossible. Certainly there was language entered into between WN, the pilot, and the union that prevents WN from further disciplining the pilot if he completes the diversity training, keeps clean, etc.

If I were in charge, and the contract allowed me to do so, I wouldn't have fired the guy, but I would have demoted him to the lowest ranked captain or perhaps a senior ranking FO along with the pay cut to that position.

OPNLguy

Personally, I'd have to agree. It's not like they were in a terminal area or shooting an ILS approach somewhere, but rather they were in Houston Center's enroute airspace at cruise altitude. Up there, their communications with ATC are pretty minimal (sector hand-offs, deviations for weather (if any), etc.) and non-operational conversations can help pass the time.

That's a good point, but no matter how it started once his personal opinions/attitudes went out via the public airwaves, he also then had a personal problem.

If that was directed at yours truly, I rather thought it clear that I wasn't automatically defending what the guy did, but was trying it explain how it happened, and attempting to add context on the consequences. Not every misstep is automatically deserving of the ultimate punishment, and opinions aside (we all have them), that decision is up to those involved that have the requisite responsibility and authority. Folks may well disagree with their decision, but it's fait accompli at this point.

That could explain it, but if true it would have been alot more constructive if they'd gone through proper channels (of which there are many) rather than create a situation where both the Company and the other 34,999 employees were affected.

Again, without in any way defending the guy's actions, the point that I was trying to make (apparently missed) is that as human beings, we all say things in the course of a day that would certainly offend at least someone out there on the planet. When we say these things, right or wrong, we usually do so in private, or in confidence with another person. If all of us had to walk around all day with microphones that could (if inadvertently activated) broadcast those things to a widespread audience, we'd all be horrified. Again, not defending the guy, just trying to alk a mile in his shoes, as I'm sure that he is indeed remorseful about the event, and in a number of different aspects.

Cheers...

hat attack

I believe the comments this afternoon, by senior management, that they were not made aware of this incident or the discipline that was agreed to by SWAPA and Flight Ops until a couple of days ago speaks for itself.

In a philosophical discussion many years ago, a wise man told me - 'in general, just don't do or say things that you'd be embarrassed for your mother to know about'. Guess who that was...

formeraa

Never mind.

OPNLguy

True enough, and enough said...

LegalTender

In my opinion, had KPRC ignited this toxic media firestorm back in March, the pilot would not have been suspended.

He'd have been sacked.

It was apparently complaints from other pilots and controllers who heard his rant that led to WN's initial move.

He's now, meanwhile, been identified by co-workers.

UALsandiego

Here's the apology by VP of Flight Ops http://www.swamedia.com/videos/south...n-chuck-magill

kennycrudup

I wouldn't let this keep you off WN, though- having once flown enough to make FO on DL and 2P on UA (as well as currently being AL+ on WN) it's been my experience that those airlines have FAs in large numbers like the one that pilot described, too- so I figure it's like that on all the rest of the domestic carriers as well.

(Look- if you wanna disagree with his choice of words and/or his feeling about his co-workers, that's one thing. But I'm sorry- if you've flown an American carrier in the last few years and haven't seen FAs like the ones he was talking about, and in significant percentages of the flight crew, you're either blind, or too PC for your own good.)