T8191

Things have certainly changed over the last 40 years! It used to be lean on the horn and barge your way through - not helped by the Chinese who never used their mirrors because a devil was sitting on the rear parcel shelf on the cushion provided.

I've spent much of the morning reading the Wikitravel article ... and am now looking at fares on SQ and BA

uk1

I see that Tom Jones has been gargeling at the Intercontinental.

kitsura

Tell me about it, been here for more than 20yrs.

Ichinensei

Have you been to KL? The food is cheaper and bettter there. Also you get more for every quid you spend.

beergut

I have and I prefer Singapore.

uk1

Thanks for the suggestion but I haven't and I think I'm getting old.

For the first chunk of my life I travelled excessively because I was scared that the next new place would be the best place I'd ever been to. Now I can't see the point in only going to new places instead of going back to all the places I know I really love. Ah well .....

jiejie

Oh please. Many of us "get it" quite well when it comes to Singapore. A surprising number of FT'ers have even lived there, certainly with more than stopover experiences. It's just that our frames of references are quite different to yours. Singapore is a good place to be posted on a decent expat package, as it functions as a well-oiled machine compared to just about any place on earth. The quality of life is very high (all the things you are alluding to). But it IS EXPENSIVE when compared to most other places in Asia except for perhaps HKG and Korea/Japan. It can be expensive compared to many places in the USA, though I can see if one is from the UK or Europe, that things might seem a bargain to you.

Frankly, all that sterility and over-organization gets a bit boring, for those of us who prefer to live life or spend holidays surrounded by...well...more local color and chaos. It's horses for courses.

uk1

No need to be rude or patronising.

The thread was pretty clearly intended to encourage people that see Singapore merely as a stopover to spend a bit more time there in spite of what they may have heard from others who merely stopover. It wasn't aimed at people living in Singapore or know it ver well but prefer somewhere else.

Stop being so grumpy.

Ichinensei

I know what you mean. I've been to Japan 5 times...it will be my 6th in August... I'm still dying to go back to Edinburgh and Bilbao..

dsgtc0408

I feel like I'm saying hi to two FT friends on line...

I got a bit amused with this exchange, and I can see where both posters are coming from. For those that are after lots of local color, Singapore honestly isn't the place. Its attractions are subtle, even occasionally cerebral (notwithstanding cab drivers that can't keep good lane discipline and the local uncle swilling away Tiger Beer - in an ice filled mug - ugh!). Anyway, not the sort of holiday many are after. The OP has the bigger point though. Singapore is the sort of place that can be eminently forgettable - after all, it's on the way to far more exotic places such as Bali or Thailand - or you're Australian and want to go to Europe, or you're European and want to go to Australia or New Zealand. No thanks to SQ and Singapore government making this country so good at being a transit stop! So he suggests that for new visitors, don't just use Singapore as a transit, look around (remember, if you fly BA or QF to its respective other end, SIN is exactly that - a transit). After looking around, if a newbie doesn't like the place, then fine, but let's leave it up to the newbie to decide if he/she likes the place or not after having a chance to check it out for themselves. The OP is just saying that maybe the old girl got it in her to pleasantly surprise one or two people, that's all.

Let's not criticize the OP if he finds peace and solitude in a place that is orderly and organized. We don't know what his usual life is like. But for all we know he's stressed out enough at home (the UK?) that Singapore is relaxing because it's so systematic and organized and he can have his beer without being hassled. On this point I feel qualified to speak. Being a born and bred flag waving New Yorker (grew up under the flight path of planes landing at either LGA or JFK), I miss the energy and the electricity of New York. But there's something to be said about being in a place where one doesn't have to have their guard up all the time - something I can't say for huge chunks of Asia. Yes, I miss New York, sometime badly. But yes, I still know how to keep my guard up - doesn't mean I have to like it. And that's why I like Singapore enough to live here (at least for now).

Horses for courses - yes, I think we can all agree with that sentiment.

DC-7B

I first visited Singapore in 1996. I wanted to go as far as I could on my USAir frequent flier miles, which gave me a choice of India or Singapore. I chose Singapore, and I've been back at least every two years ever since. It is clean and safe and they speak English, so I have no problem getting along. I love their MRT and bus service with their TransitLink Guide which gives every route with complete timetables. Their Night Safari is fantastic, which I visit nearly every trip. I used to stay at Hotel Asia, near the Newton MRT station, which was nice and very reasonable in price. Unfortunately, it has been demolished, so I am staying at the Hilton on this trip, which is more expensive, but since I am a Diamond VIP member, I'll probably get a nice upgrade. If you haven't been to Singapore, you might want to give it a try.

christep

There is clearly a niche for timid travellers who want the Disneyland version of Asia.

uk1

Thanks.

We have a background of the big city in common. I was brought up in the area that is now called "The Barbican" in the City of London. Right in the center of town. Have also lived in Tottenham - now pretty much a no go area after dark for whites. Now living between a rural home that you cannot hear another sound from except birds and another home right on a beach.

I have been fortunate enough to have the time and resources to have travel as my main activity for the last 25 years or so. My favourite European city has been Vienna which we've been visitng at least two ro three times a year. Other cities are Cannes and Nice, Sydney, Paris, Lisbon, Madrid and several others. Atalanta is my favourite US city. Interestingly Vienna has changed enormously in 20 years or so with the newly found access by the new Europeans from East-Europe. It has become slightly less polite and cultured and more grumpy.

What is different about most capital cities is their ambivalence about the visitor. Cities don't know you have arrived or left. Even the immigrants shrug with disinterest after living in a city after a couple of years.

I had quite a few trips "through Singapore" before I started to realise that it had the unique charms I highlighted here. When you have spent the last few years living or visiting cities where the older population feel unsafe at night and where the food is inconsistant and good food unaffordable it seemed to me that most people like me who have only passed through have made the assumption that there's nothing to keep you there. I didn't say that there is not other places I've not been to that aren't better! Or that there aren't places where the street food isn't cheaper. How would I know?! I just suggested that people nurture the thought that Singapore justifies a bit more than that. That is all!

dsgtc0408

Yes, I agree with your sentiment. But please spare a thought for all those folks for whom Asia is a mysterious and strange place, please. Keep in mind that something like 80% of my fellow Americans don't carry passports. Asia is so out of their understanding that to get even one to do the baby step out of the lower 48 states is an accomplishment.

After they've checked out Disneyland, then they can be encouraged to go farther out. Hey, if they like Singapore, maybe they can be helped along to check out Jogjakarta next.

uk1

Quite right ..... and how does ......

...... help people understand the alternatives exactly? Snide insults are rarely useful.