High number of complaints on Singapore Airlines new Premium Economy product
Feb 11, 2017, 4:25 am
#31
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 876
That's how BA's PEY was. About a third more floor space than economy with economy service from check-in onwards. It was priced at 1.8x but made the difference between a miserable long haul journey and an acceptable one.
The champagne and catering is not what makes some customers pay nearly double economy prices - it's the difference from pain reduction. And I used to pay this willingly on the SIN/LHR route.
However SQ's problem is their economy is already expensive, so doubling that prices their PEY product to within 15-20% of a one stop flatbed business product. So today I would pay for the one stop business flatbed. But this is probably not acceptable to those who "must travel SQ" hence the grousing...
The champagne and catering is not what makes some customers pay nearly double economy prices - it's the difference from pain reduction. And I used to pay this willingly on the SIN/LHR route.
However SQ's problem is their economy is already expensive, so doubling that prices their PEY product to within 15-20% of a one stop flatbed business product. So today I would pay for the one stop business flatbed. But this is probably not acceptable to those who "must travel SQ" hence the grousing...
Feb 11, 2017, 9:28 am
#32
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: YYZ
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That's how BA's PEY was. About a third more floor space than economy with economy service from check-in onwards. It was priced at 1.8x but made the difference between a miserable long haul journey and an acceptable one.
The champagne and catering is not what makes some customers pay nearly double economy prices - it's the difference from pain reduction. And I used to pay this willingly on the SIN/LHR route.
However SQ's problem is their economy is already expensive, so doubling that prices their PEY product to within 15-20% of a one stop flatbed business product. So today I would pay for the one stop business flatbed. But this is probably not acceptable to those who "must travel SQ" hence the grousing...
The champagne and catering is not what makes some customers pay nearly double economy prices - it's the difference from pain reduction. And I used to pay this willingly on the SIN/LHR route.
However SQ's problem is their economy is already expensive, so doubling that prices their PEY product to within 15-20% of a one stop flatbed business product. So today I would pay for the one stop business flatbed. But this is probably not acceptable to those who "must travel SQ" hence the grousing...
I agree with you
Feb 15, 2017, 5:49 pm
#33
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 908
Australia to Singapore and back to Australia are in Economy but the flights from Singapore to Europe and back to Singapore are in Premium Economy.
So my question is what baggage allowance applies...
Is it 30kg for the whole journey or 35kg for the whole journey... or is it just what ever class you're travelling in for that flight?
Feb 19, 2017, 3:29 pm
#36
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Cinnabar Mines
Programs: UA Kayaker and LVF, OZ Carbonesque
Posts: 104
Agree on Price Issue
Having just completed a round trip flight on the nonstop SFO-SIN service, I agree that SQ's premium economy is a bit overpriced. I was fortunate to have purchased my ticket during a fare sale (less than 1200 USD SFO-BKK), but at the current rate of 2400 USD, business class appears a much nicer proposition at 4300. I suppose one could argue that this is SQ's plan, but then why even have a premium economy class? Alternatively, I could fly EVA in PEY for less than 1300 USD, or Asiana in business for 3200.
I have never had the opportunity to fly PEY on other SQ planes, but the A350 is somewhat cramped for 2-4-2 seating, considering that the A350 is only 6 inches wider than the 787, and BA and NH have 2-3-2 seating in PEY on their 787s.
Regarding the curtain, having it closed may have helped to mitigate some of the Y bulkhead baby noise, which I encountered on both flights.
The overall product is by no means terrible, but I wouldn't go out of my way to fly it, especially given the current prices.
I have never had the opportunity to fly PEY on other SQ planes, but the A350 is somewhat cramped for 2-4-2 seating, considering that the A350 is only 6 inches wider than the 787, and BA and NH have 2-3-2 seating in PEY on their 787s.
Regarding the curtain, having it closed may have helped to mitigate some of the Y bulkhead baby noise, which I encountered on both flights.
The overall product is by no means terrible, but I wouldn't go out of my way to fly it, especially given the current prices.
Feb 20, 2017, 5:35 pm
#37
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
Having just completed a round trip flight on the nonstop SFO-SIN service, I agree that SQ's premium economy is a bit overpriced. I was fortunate to have purchased my ticket during a fare sale (less than 1200 USD SFO-BKK), but at the current rate of 2400 USD, business class appears a much nicer proposition at 4300. I suppose one could argue that this is SQ's plan, but then why even have a premium economy class? Alternatively, I could fly EVA in PEY for less than 1300 USD, or Asiana in business for 3200.
I have never had the opportunity to fly PEY on other SQ planes, but the A350 is somewhat cramped for 2-4-2 seating, considering that the A350 is only 6 inches wider than the 787, and BA and NH have 2-3-2 seating in PEY on their 787s.
Regarding the curtain, having it closed may have helped to mitigate some of the Y bulkhead baby noise, which I encountered on both flights.
The overall product is by no means terrible, but I wouldn't go out of my way to fly it, especially given the current prices.
I have never had the opportunity to fly PEY on other SQ planes, but the A350 is somewhat cramped for 2-4-2 seating, considering that the A350 is only 6 inches wider than the 787, and BA and NH have 2-3-2 seating in PEY on their 787s.
Regarding the curtain, having it closed may have helped to mitigate some of the Y bulkhead baby noise, which I encountered on both flights.
The overall product is by no means terrible, but I wouldn't go out of my way to fly it, especially given the current prices.
It seems that most airlines with PEY will be asking for about double of what their Y fare is, and about half of what their J fare. Of course they can go a lot lower at sales, but I hardly see some real heavily discounted PEY sales. I guess you might have purchased it at product launch.
Feb 20, 2017, 6:56 pm
#38
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Interesting discussion as is similar ones on the other forums of airlines with Premium Economy (a.k.a PE, PY, PEY 
)
My experience with Air Canada's version shows how it can be great and well-priced or you are left looking at the prices and wondering what rev management is up to.
I consider those of us who fly AC, particularly on some of its routes to Asia, Europe etc to have been very lucky way back in 2014 when AC started taking delivery of its new 788s and then 789s.
We had PE "way back then". On these aircraft, it is a completely separate cabin, excellent seats and space in a 2-3-2 with dedicated lav(s), and curtains separating it from economy. Total seats, 24.
When I flew it for the first time in 2014, YYZ-HND (13.5 hours), the food and service were excellent. The dinner meal was exactly the same as J, but fewer choices. Served on proper dishes with glasses for wine, water etc. Snacks and breakfast were essentially what Y would get, but still better service.
I also flew AC's PE CPH-YYZ and food and service were great.
Since then, AC has had pricing for PE bounce around and either be quite decent for the distance and route (e.g.. YYZ-NRT), or be insanely high. In addition, they seem to have cut back on the better food and service. There have been more complaints on the European routes than the Asian in this regard.
On many of my flights over the past 2 years to/from Asian destinations, the PE cabin is often more than half empty, sometimes less than 6 pax total.
This can be a reflection of when AC has much higher prices on a route in PE relative to Y and J. Other times, I've paid much less for PE than what regular Y was selling for (both non-flexible, but earning full mile accrual). It was nuts.
Other airlines I've flown have not had the PE cabin as long. Some may also fly different routes and have different expectations re revenue.
Part of the challenge here is how SQ chose their seating and cabin design, part of it is the pricing and the food and service. Airlines obviously see things from the cost and profit points of view.
We fliers see things from the price and value and comfort points of view.
I will not knowingly choose to fly long-haul in PE on any aircraft that does not have a dedicated lav and a separation between PE and Y. My view is, if you are charging me more for the "Premium" part of "Premium Economy", it has to have some benefits.
Some airlines will price PE high relative to Y, but offer better value and comfort. Others still price it high, but things are not much better than Y.
The concepts of Business and Economy (Coach) are generally well understood by airlines and pax. The nonsense terminology used by U.S. airlines in recent years for the extra space accorded the front of the coach cabin (eg. Economy Comfort, Y+, MCE etc) have completely confused many fliers there.
I found my SQ Business Class experiences to have been excellent both in terms of service and food. SQ is expensive relative to some of the competition, but as long as it can maintain and continue to deliver on this "experience", one assumes there will be customers willing to buy it.
I am not sure who at SQ or the other competitive airlines chose to design their PE cabins. Assuming they manage to fill the cabin and make money, I doubt they will make changes.
Should the negative experiences become more public and vocal and should less PE seats be sold as a result, SQ may have to rethink the design and the pricing.
.
)My experience with Air Canada's version shows how it can be great and well-priced or you are left looking at the prices and wondering what rev management is up to.
I consider those of us who fly AC, particularly on some of its routes to Asia, Europe etc to have been very lucky way back in 2014 when AC started taking delivery of its new 788s and then 789s.
We had PE "way back then". On these aircraft, it is a completely separate cabin, excellent seats and space in a 2-3-2 with dedicated lav(s), and curtains separating it from economy. Total seats, 24.
When I flew it for the first time in 2014, YYZ-HND (13.5 hours), the food and service were excellent. The dinner meal was exactly the same as J, but fewer choices. Served on proper dishes with glasses for wine, water etc. Snacks and breakfast were essentially what Y would get, but still better service.
I also flew AC's PE CPH-YYZ and food and service were great.
Since then, AC has had pricing for PE bounce around and either be quite decent for the distance and route (e.g.. YYZ-NRT), or be insanely high. In addition, they seem to have cut back on the better food and service. There have been more complaints on the European routes than the Asian in this regard.
On many of my flights over the past 2 years to/from Asian destinations, the PE cabin is often more than half empty, sometimes less than 6 pax total.
This can be a reflection of when AC has much higher prices on a route in PE relative to Y and J. Other times, I've paid much less for PE than what regular Y was selling for (both non-flexible, but earning full mile accrual). It was nuts.
Other airlines I've flown have not had the PE cabin as long. Some may also fly different routes and have different expectations re revenue.
Part of the challenge here is how SQ chose their seating and cabin design, part of it is the pricing and the food and service. Airlines obviously see things from the cost and profit points of view.
We fliers see things from the price and value and comfort points of view.
I will not knowingly choose to fly long-haul in PE on any aircraft that does not have a dedicated lav and a separation between PE and Y. My view is, if you are charging me more for the "Premium" part of "Premium Economy", it has to have some benefits.
Some airlines will price PE high relative to Y, but offer better value and comfort. Others still price it high, but things are not much better than Y.
The concepts of Business and Economy (Coach) are generally well understood by airlines and pax. The nonsense terminology used by U.S. airlines in recent years for the extra space accorded the front of the coach cabin (eg. Economy Comfort, Y+, MCE etc) have completely confused many fliers there.
I found my SQ Business Class experiences to have been excellent both in terms of service and food. SQ is expensive relative to some of the competition, but as long as it can maintain and continue to deliver on this "experience", one assumes there will be customers willing to buy it.
I am not sure who at SQ or the other competitive airlines chose to design their PE cabins. Assuming they manage to fill the cabin and make money, I doubt they will make changes.
Should the negative experiences become more public and vocal and should less PE seats be sold as a result, SQ may have to rethink the design and the pricing.
.
Feb 21, 2017, 1:17 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 6,483
It is simple in my mind and probably many other peoples' --
The PE seat gives you maybe 25% more recline than regular economy, with other amenities that are not dramatically different. Then it should cost something like 25% more than regular economy. Not 75-100% more.
Lie flat can (to some/many) justify 3-4x price, but that is lying flat. This PE is priced wrong.
The PE seat gives you maybe 25% more recline than regular economy, with other amenities that are not dramatically different. Then it should cost something like 25% more than regular economy. Not 75-100% more.
Lie flat can (to some/many) justify 3-4x price, but that is lying flat. This PE is priced wrong.
Mar 6, 2017, 9:17 am
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Singapore Airlines Solitaire PPS Club, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 93
It is simple in my mind and probably many other peoples' --
The PE seat gives you maybe 25% more recline than regular economy, with other amenities that are not dramatically different. Then it should cost something like 25% more than regular economy. Not 75-100% more.
Lie flat can (to some/many) justify 3-4x price, but that is lying flat. This PE is priced wrong.
The PE seat gives you maybe 25% more recline than regular economy, with other amenities that are not dramatically different. Then it should cost something like 25% more than regular economy. Not 75-100% more.
Lie flat can (to some/many) justify 3-4x price, but that is lying flat. This PE is priced wrong.
Mar 6, 2017, 9:45 am
#42
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,844
Here's a question, if you could get SQ premium economy SIN- US for about $400 SGD more than SQ economy, but there is a time cost of about 5 hrs flying and 1.5 hrs hanging around an airport ...on the day before the outbound long haul flight ... would you consider it worthwhile?
Mar 6, 2017, 10:14 am
#43
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Programs: Thai Royal Orchid Plus Gold, BA Silver, Alitalia Freccia Alata
Posts: 348
Probably the worst aspect for me was the seat, it was spacious enough, but on the outbound LHR-SIN no matter what I tried I ended up with back ache after the 12hr flight. The inbound SIN-LHR redeye was better as the seat next to me was empty and I actually managed to get some sleep. Still, in the past couple of years I'd done non-red eye flights on UA and NH in Y and don't recall it ever the Y seat ever being that uncomfortable.
Food and drink - annoying that SQ marketing make a big song and dance about champagne and Book the Cook, but champagne was not provided pre-boarding; I thought the food was generally over-seasoned regardless of BtC or not, and generally of Y quality and presentation. Had far superior food on ANA Y.
Price - my company paid GBP 1750 for LHR-SIN-HAN roundtrip (SIN-HAN segment in SQ/MI Y), about GBP 300 more than J for this route on TK, VN, and similarly priced to J in OZ and TG IIRC. I could also have gone for CX PE, which I think was a few hundred pounds slightly cheaper, and VN PE which was about half the price. In the end I only went for SQ because of the perverse company policy which makes it very difficult for me to opt for J even if cheaper - and I didn't want to go CX PE (slightly cheaper) or VN PE (half the price) as I needed to requalify for my TG Gold.
I suspect I am not their main target market as I came across a fair number of whom I assume to be Aussies/New Zealanders in the SQ PE cabin. But I would note that even VN is now flying down under..
Next time I'm going to try BA PE to BKK, and tag on a separate cheap BKK-HAN flight. Still much cheaper than SQ (the BA flights are GBP 1200).
I'm not sure what my conclusion is - other than that there is definitely a market out their for PE as big corporations are downsizing their travel policies? - but agree that SQ should reduce the price AND reduce the hype around their PE product.
Mar 7, 2017, 6:27 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Singapore Airlines Solitaire PPS Club, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 93
Quote: "I have to agree that my first SQ PE experience was pretty underwhelming for the price paid".
Passengers expect top quality from SIA, having had great cabin products for many years. They seem not to have researched the offerings and pricing of their competitors thoroughly. SIA Economy Class & Business Class fares have dropped considerably in the last two years. That makes their pricing of Premium Economy even more incomprehensible.
Passengers expect top quality from SIA, having had great cabin products for many years. They seem not to have researched the offerings and pricing of their competitors thoroughly. SIA Economy Class & Business Class fares have dropped considerably in the last two years. That makes their pricing of Premium Economy even more incomprehensible.
Mar 8, 2017, 9:37 am
#45
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Plat, M&M FTL, BA Blue, QR Gold
Posts: 3,699
I did FRA-SIN-MEL-SIN-FRA in SQ PY in February 2017 and it was decent. Price was just over EUR 2000 return all in, which is fair enough in (German) holiday season.
Seat was way better then Y, what with two full armrests per pax? Calf rest (footrest is useless, calf rest is not)? Better recline? Being served meals before the Y cabin? Book the Cook, OK it's a limited offer but Y gets no Book the Cook at all. Noise-cancelling headphones? 150% miles on Miles & More?
It's just the IFE that needs sorting out, drops out far to often.
My comparison is Lufthansa PY, which is not as good - no calf rest to start with, no Book the Cook, and standard headphones only IIRC.
Seat was way better then Y, what with two full armrests per pax? Calf rest (footrest is useless, calf rest is not)? Better recline? Being served meals before the Y cabin? Book the Cook, OK it's a limited offer but Y gets no Book the Cook at all. Noise-cancelling headphones? 150% miles on Miles & More?
It's just the IFE that needs sorting out, drops out far to often.
My comparison is Lufthansa PY, which is not as good - no calf rest to start with, no Book the Cook, and standard headphones only IIRC.
