WNLuvr

I searched for a general answer to this prior to posting, but to no avail...

I am trying to understand why on EF when I run a search for C class upgrade inventory on JFK-LAX flights not all flights are shown.

I am using the Awards & Upgrades search option. For this example, I am looking for C class inventory to upgrade from coach to business on 2/18. Of course, upgrade inventory is quite limited which is understandable.

However, not all flights on AA are showing up. Flight 19, the 10:25AM departure shows C0 availability. But, Flight 3, the 12:10PM departure, doesn't even show up as a flight on this search.

Does anyone know the distinction of why one flight with C0 availability would be displayed but another flight (with unknown availability but I would presume C0) wouldn't show up at all?

inlanikai

It's a quirk of the GDS system that EF gets the data from. When the GDS does a search based on your query to EF and it finds two flights with the inventory you requested equal to 0, and all subsequent flights for that day also with 0 inventory for the bucket you requested, the GDS only returns the first two. Not seeing the subsequent flights after showing two flights = 0 implies that all subsequent flights for that day also have no inventory for that bucket.

EF isn't deleting or truncating the data, it is just not forthcoming from the GDS.

WNLuvr

Perfect--thanks for the background info. We can assume then that the absence of a flight being included means it's currently C0. Thanks!

BenjaminNYC

I thought EF would show C0 if it were C0...?

WNLuvr

I think I can validate inlanikai's explanation. I just upgraded on the 3:59p departure (AA 181), which was the only remaining JFK-LAX flight that afternoon with any C availability (was at C1). When they took my upgrade seat out of inventory, I reran the EF Awards & Upgrades search search for Feb. 18 and now AA 181 does not show up at all (no C0 displayed). The search resulted in: (1) AA 201 6:40a departure C3; (2) AA 1 9:00a departure C0; (3) AA 19 10:25a departure C0; (4) AA 185 8:40p departure C3. So it would make sense that AA 181 is now eliminated from the search results due to the phenomenon inlanikai described.

brp

EF should show C0 if it is C0, but they do not. It's basically C Unknown. As inlanikai indicated, the GDS will not return results after two consecutive zero values for C. Knowing that there are more flights, but no returned values, EF could resubmit the query with a later time to get more data, but this would take more than a simple query based on what the user has input for starting information. Rather than provide the complete information that the user wants, the interface provides what a simple GDS query returns.

Cheers.

inlanikai

Just to clarify my previous explanation. If there are two consecutive C=0 which are shown then no subsequent flights will be shown IF they also are C=0. If the first two are C=0 and let's say the 4th flight of the day is C=1 it will show that flight as C=1. Therefore, the fact that nothing else shows can be construed as there being no other flights with C>0.

brp

Not from what I've been told, and what I experienced. If there are two C=0, then subsequent flights with C>0 do not show. I've seen this by putting a later time and seeing later flights with C>0, but only if there are not two C=0 at the beginning. That's been my experience, anyway.

Cheers.

ijgordon

I'm with brp. I believe later flights won't show even if there is availability, if there are two consecutive earlier flights without availability. The workaround is to run several (manual) queries, with later departure times.

Certainly Your ExpertFlyer Voice can weigh in if he likes...

inlanikai

Look at JFK>LHR on July 5, 2009. There are 5 flights for that day in order: 142, 100, 104, 132, 116.

If you do the search for C with the default time of 12:00am it will show 142 and 100 with C = 0 and stop. Now do it again moving the time into the evening at several different times to capture the later flights of 104, 132, 116. They too show C = 0.

Now move the date to 7/10/09 and set the time to the default 12:00am. Search for C. 142 and 100 (first two flights of the day) show C=0 and on the same screen 104 and 116 each show C=1.

I'll take that as meaning that if you get two flights with inventory_requested=0 and no flights listed after that then all flights for that day are also 0.

ExpertFlyer Voice

Well, your kind of both right. Many times the GDS will return all the flights that have a >0 value, but sometimes when the first 2 are 0 and the subsequent flight is also 0 in value, and the only flight with inventory is much later in the day, then it may not show it.

It's also not as simple as just checking against a schedule and doing more queries. For a non-stops sure, but what about when you need a connecting flight or two? Not all connections will come back for all award and upgrade queries because some award and upgrade classes are only valid for 2 cabin or 3 cabin flights. When you have connections that are combinations of mixed equipment/cabin configurations it gets very problematic very fast to know what should be returned when (think about a trip with a 2-cabin domestic leg and an 3-cabin international leg, the upgrade and award codes for "first" are different) and then determine if something didn't get returned because the time of day needs to be changed or because the flight doesn't have that given upgrade or award class. Also, we have no way of knowing for sure how many cabins are in a given flight without also cross checking the data against the results from a regular Flight Availability search so we can see if J or F or J and F are returned... in addition to the schedule lookup for all non-stop and connection options. It's complicated to say the least. Not to mention the extra cost of all those extra queries, for every class and day combination requested for multi-day searches.

That's why we decided to just look for a better GDS to give us the data properly in one shot. We belive we've found one, however AA still needs to get involved to make sure they have all the necessary data, which is not the fastest process in the world, but we're working on it.

-EFV

Alpha

Background: I have a TA, if that can help with any of this. And I'm challenging for Plat starting April 1 (I'll definitely make it).

So, I'm new to EF. I'm hoping to fly myself and the SO from SFO to RDU in July. I'd like to redeye out on a Wed night, July 1st. I want my best shot at upgrading myself and SO. Flt 272 through MIA is too expensive, so I'm looking at flights 150 (through BOS) and 2466 (through DFW).

EF has me confused in a few ways:

First, what is the point of R class? I would be using stickers, not miles. But there is never anything available anywhere in R class. Everyone here always talks about C. Are they interchangeable?

Second, only flights connecting through JFK show up with C inventory. Are all the other routings booked full of F pax always and forever? If not, what am I missing?

Third, EF is showing seat availablility in Q and O for flight 2466, but on the AA website the cheapest flight is N on the outbound and S on the return. If Q or O are, indeed, available, could my TA (who works in Sabre) book directly into them, or is this a case of buckets that are "available" but not yet released?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

dfotn

Deleted

Alpha

It did mostly answer, actually.

Another question. Why do open seats show up on the seatmap when the flight is X0 ?

mikeef

They're not interchangeable. C is the bucket for miles or eVIPs. The reason you hear people talk about them here is that it appears for all 3-class flights, as well as international 2-class flights, which are generally considered more valuable uses of upgrades. R inventory is for 3-class planes and certain Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, etc. flights. For your flight, you want X inventory, which is domestic stickers (and is restricted until 24-hours before, which dfotn points out below).

Mike

Mike