RealDLInsider Posting - July Q&A
Jul 25, 2008, 3:48 pm
#1
Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 34
RealDLInsider Posting - July Q&A
Looks like my last posting around responses to some of the latest questions was a bit more popular, so I’ll stick with format until we all get a little tired of it. There were several announcements and questions posed over the last few weeks, and I’ll try to highlight those that looked like hotter topics. If you all want to create a thread which would provide me some of your major questions, I’ll do my best to refer back to the thread to see how I can help answer them:
Q: We like that the PMU complexity will be fixed, but any more information that you can provide on this?
A: As part of the integration of the NW and DL programs, I can confirm that the PMU will be different. We are working now through various iterations of a systemwide upgrade certificate that is easier and more consistently usable for members. Although I’m not yet sure where it will end up, issues around the fare requirements, whether it will be accepted on the day-of-departure when there are empty seats, how many will be provided, applicable markets, who will receive them, and automation versus paper, are all being considered and individually and holistically important. In the end, we will likely strike an appropriate balance between the financials and what’s important to customers, but I wholeheartedly believe it will be a better offering
Q: Does the threshold bonus mileage promotion this year apply to everyone who goes over 75K MQMs?
A: Yes. In the past, although the promotion was done for the last few years, the incentives and who was invited to participate changed. In the past, we used to invite a subset of customers to be a part of the threshold promotion, and held a control group of customers out who were not eligible to participate – so that we could determine if the promotion and incentives were successful. After proving year after year that the promotion was a success, we tossed the testing to the side and made it a published benefit this year. We also simplified the incentive structure and gave away the most popular incentives from the previous years – not surprisingly, bonus miles and a Crown Room Club membership.
Q: When is your three-tiered award structure being implemented? Last we heard was late Summer?
A: We are finalizing all of the technology testing right now around the new award structure, and although we’ve had a few hiccups, it appears to be on target for an early September soft-launch. We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability. The first lowest level will be similar to the Saver awards today, the second tier will be expanded availability (varies by market but generally around 50% of all available seats systemwide), and a last seat availability level that goes back to “last seat on the plane.” American, United, Continental and Alaska have all recently announced some award level increases, which we did integrate into the new award structure. We did not however make any adjustments to the D48 – 25K mile award level. Bottom line, there are a couple saver level increases, however the new expanded availability tier is always lower than SkyChoice today, and the new last seat levels are almost always higher than SkyChoice today. Each award level is combinable, and with availability on a flight by flight basis on our website, we move the pricing of an award seat a lot closer to the pricing of a revenue seat. What we anticipate will happen, is that far less “choice” seats will be taken and far more “expanded” tier 2 seats will be taken in combination with saver seats. Moving forward, the only people who should really be using “choice” are those who plan last minute when the flights are full, or who are trying to find awards seats during the most peak special events (e.g. Super Bowl).
Q: Are I fares technically Business Class fares or auto-upgraded Coach fares?
A: I fares are just discounted but are confirmed Business Class fares and get all the benefits that a full-fare Business Class fare would get. It gets the incremental bonus miles, MQMs and would be rebooked in Business Class during an irregular operation. It would also obviously get access to the lounges.
Q: Why is Delta offering free Helicopter rides from Manhattan to JFK when a customer buys a First Class or Unrestricted Coach Y Fare?
A: It’s true. The margin is so high for any airline on confirmed Business Class, First Class and unrestricted Coach fares, that the additional margin can easily allow us to pay for a helicopter ride. We also have purchased a few freebie rides in advance, and have a small pile to burn up. Ultimately however, we are attempting to create “trial” for New Yorkers who are familiar and comfortable with car services, to check it out. I’ve done it, and if I lived in New York, would take it every time. 8 minutes from Manhattan to JFK, you clear security at the Heliport (with no line), and they drop you off right in the terminal near the club.
Q: I’m not happy about the CLEAR partnership since it’s simply going to eat away at the First and Business Class and Medallion expedited lines?
A: Not true and if it does, we are going to have major issue with it. We partnered with CLEAR to provide our customers who don’t have access to preferred security lines to be able to have an option which better guarantees them a certain line-wait at major airports. We also believed that CLEAR was going to continue to expand into many major markets, including Atlanta, Los Angeles and New York, and given the importance of these markets to Delta, we wanted to be a part of that expansion, rather than sitting on the sidelines. We have made an agreement with CLEAR that we will protect our preferred security lines for Medallions/First and Business class customers, and will absolutely continue to offer these lines and the new CLEAR lines in as many airports as we can. In fact, we are also looking at continuing to expand the First/Business/Medallion lines in those airports where we don’t have them today – including Newark and a few key Florida airports. The real estate there is pretty tight and thus getting it done has been difficult, but we are certainly trying.
Q: Now that a few other airlines have eliminated elite bonus miles and lowered the 500-mile minimum for short-haul flights, I anticipate Delta will match this.
A: We have no current intent to eliminate the bonus miles we offer to our Medallion customers or to lower the 500 mile minimum earn per segment. Furthermore, I’m personally not a fan of these particular changes given our network and customer base.
Whew – that was a lot of typing Hopefully they help answer a few questions. For now, safe travels and have a great weekend.
Jeff
Q: We like that the PMU complexity will be fixed, but any more information that you can provide on this?
A: As part of the integration of the NW and DL programs, I can confirm that the PMU will be different. We are working now through various iterations of a systemwide upgrade certificate that is easier and more consistently usable for members. Although I’m not yet sure where it will end up, issues around the fare requirements, whether it will be accepted on the day-of-departure when there are empty seats, how many will be provided, applicable markets, who will receive them, and automation versus paper, are all being considered and individually and holistically important. In the end, we will likely strike an appropriate balance between the financials and what’s important to customers, but I wholeheartedly believe it will be a better offering
Q: Does the threshold bonus mileage promotion this year apply to everyone who goes over 75K MQMs?
A: Yes. In the past, although the promotion was done for the last few years, the incentives and who was invited to participate changed. In the past, we used to invite a subset of customers to be a part of the threshold promotion, and held a control group of customers out who were not eligible to participate – so that we could determine if the promotion and incentives were successful. After proving year after year that the promotion was a success, we tossed the testing to the side and made it a published benefit this year. We also simplified the incentive structure and gave away the most popular incentives from the previous years – not surprisingly, bonus miles and a Crown Room Club membership.
Q: When is your three-tiered award structure being implemented? Last we heard was late Summer?
A: We are finalizing all of the technology testing right now around the new award structure, and although we’ve had a few hiccups, it appears to be on target for an early September soft-launch. We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability. The first lowest level will be similar to the Saver awards today, the second tier will be expanded availability (varies by market but generally around 50% of all available seats systemwide), and a last seat availability level that goes back to “last seat on the plane.” American, United, Continental and Alaska have all recently announced some award level increases, which we did integrate into the new award structure. We did not however make any adjustments to the D48 – 25K mile award level. Bottom line, there are a couple saver level increases, however the new expanded availability tier is always lower than SkyChoice today, and the new last seat levels are almost always higher than SkyChoice today. Each award level is combinable, and with availability on a flight by flight basis on our website, we move the pricing of an award seat a lot closer to the pricing of a revenue seat. What we anticipate will happen, is that far less “choice” seats will be taken and far more “expanded” tier 2 seats will be taken in combination with saver seats. Moving forward, the only people who should really be using “choice” are those who plan last minute when the flights are full, or who are trying to find awards seats during the most peak special events (e.g. Super Bowl).
Q: Are I fares technically Business Class fares or auto-upgraded Coach fares?
A: I fares are just discounted but are confirmed Business Class fares and get all the benefits that a full-fare Business Class fare would get. It gets the incremental bonus miles, MQMs and would be rebooked in Business Class during an irregular operation. It would also obviously get access to the lounges.
Q: Why is Delta offering free Helicopter rides from Manhattan to JFK when a customer buys a First Class or Unrestricted Coach Y Fare?
A: It’s true. The margin is so high for any airline on confirmed Business Class, First Class and unrestricted Coach fares, that the additional margin can easily allow us to pay for a helicopter ride. We also have purchased a few freebie rides in advance, and have a small pile to burn up. Ultimately however, we are attempting to create “trial” for New Yorkers who are familiar and comfortable with car services, to check it out. I’ve done it, and if I lived in New York, would take it every time. 8 minutes from Manhattan to JFK, you clear security at the Heliport (with no line), and they drop you off right in the terminal near the club.
Q: I’m not happy about the CLEAR partnership since it’s simply going to eat away at the First and Business Class and Medallion expedited lines?
A: Not true and if it does, we are going to have major issue with it. We partnered with CLEAR to provide our customers who don’t have access to preferred security lines to be able to have an option which better guarantees them a certain line-wait at major airports. We also believed that CLEAR was going to continue to expand into many major markets, including Atlanta, Los Angeles and New York, and given the importance of these markets to Delta, we wanted to be a part of that expansion, rather than sitting on the sidelines. We have made an agreement with CLEAR that we will protect our preferred security lines for Medallions/First and Business class customers, and will absolutely continue to offer these lines and the new CLEAR lines in as many airports as we can. In fact, we are also looking at continuing to expand the First/Business/Medallion lines in those airports where we don’t have them today – including Newark and a few key Florida airports. The real estate there is pretty tight and thus getting it done has been difficult, but we are certainly trying.
Q: Now that a few other airlines have eliminated elite bonus miles and lowered the 500-mile minimum for short-haul flights, I anticipate Delta will match this.
A: We have no current intent to eliminate the bonus miles we offer to our Medallion customers or to lower the 500 mile minimum earn per segment. Furthermore, I’m personally not a fan of these particular changes given our network and customer base.
Whew – that was a lot of typing Hopefully they help answer a few questions. For now, safe travels and have a great weekend.
Jeff
Jul 25, 2008, 3:57 pm
#2
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: United 1K, Delta PM, Hilton Diamond, Starwood Gold, National Exec. Elite
Posts: 1,406
Good news about the minimum.
I personally think the current PMU program isn't worth the paper my PMUs are printed on so that is good news as well.
I personally think the current PMU program isn't worth the paper my PMUs are printed on so that is good news as well.
Jul 25, 2008, 4:02 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL - PM (Sky Priority);HH - Gold; Marriott - Silver; National - Executive; DL Reserve AMEX
Posts: 5,234
I have to say that while it was nice to learn more about the 3-tiered award program, you're answers overall were completely useless and have NOTHING to do with our concerns here.
Who is actually asked about CLEAR or the Helicopter rides to NYC? No one.
Who is asking about when DL is going to fix their award calendar? EVERYONE!
Who is actually asked about CLEAR or the Helicopter rides to NYC? No one.
Who is asking about when DL is going to fix their award calendar? EVERYONE!
Jul 25, 2008, 4:02 pm
#4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM 1.77MM, Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 2,784
Q: I’m not happy about the CLEAR partnership since it’s simply going to eat away at the First and Business Class and Medallion expedited lines?
A: Not true and if it does, we are going to have major issue with it. We partnered with CLEAR to provide our customers who don’t have access to preferred security lines to be able to have an option which better guarantees them a certain line-wait at major airports. We also believed that CLEAR was going to continue to expand into many major markets, including Atlanta, Los Angeles and New York, and given the importance of these markets to Delta, we wanted to be a part of that expansion, rather than sitting on the sidelines. We have made an agreement with CLEAR that we will protect our preferred security lines for Medallions/First and Business class customers, and will absolutely continue to offer these lines and the new CLEAR lines in as many airports as we can. In fact, we are also looking at continuing to expand the First/Business/Medallion lines in those airports where we don’t have them today – including Newark and a few key Florida airports. The real estate there is pretty tight and thus getting it done has been difficult, but we are certainly trying.
A: Not true and if it does, we are going to have major issue with it. We partnered with CLEAR to provide our customers who don’t have access to preferred security lines to be able to have an option which better guarantees them a certain line-wait at major airports. We also believed that CLEAR was going to continue to expand into many major markets, including Atlanta, Los Angeles and New York, and given the importance of these markets to Delta, we wanted to be a part of that expansion, rather than sitting on the sidelines. We have made an agreement with CLEAR that we will protect our preferred security lines for Medallions/First and Business class customers, and will absolutely continue to offer these lines and the new CLEAR lines in as many airports as we can. In fact, we are also looking at continuing to expand the First/Business/Medallion lines in those airports where we don’t have them today – including Newark and a few key Florida airports. The real estate there is pretty tight and thus getting it done has been difficult, but we are certainly trying.
My question relates directly to my home airport, LAX, but I'm betting it happens at other airports as well. I've had several experiences this year where I've arrived at the airport during the late afternoon/early evening rush. The Medallion/premium class screening line (downstairs next to the luggage x-ray machine) is open, but once I get to the top of the stairs, I've found that the Medallion/premium class line isn't always open. Some days, no big deal as the traffic is light, but there have been a few when it's a brutally slow line. The real kicker is when there are approx 10+ TSA agents huddling around 1 or 2 stations. Is there anything Delta can do to keep the Medallion line open in cases like this and/or get the TSA to open more lines? Or, is the ball 100% in TSA's court at that point? Anything DL could do to help would be greatly appreciated by us on the Left Coast.
Cheers!
Jul 25, 2008, 4:04 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Programs: DL PM, HH Diamond, Fairmont Prem, SPG Gold, Priority Club Plat/IC Amb, AmEx Plat
Posts: 10,839
This is good news. To follow with that, is there any talk about Elite qualification using segments?
Jul 25, 2008, 4:26 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 998
Jeff,
Please give us a warning (like you did with the new award redemption fees) on the exact cost of the new skysaver prices outside of the D48 (since you acknowledged they are increasing). This will allow people to book there plans now at the lower redemption tier than it will become soon.
No need to drop the overnight bomb on us like you guys pulled with all of the fees that were announced overnight in April....that makes customers angry.
No one likes it when we are unhappy.....
Also, what about award flights booked on Continental 11 months out from now.....ie. June 2009. Will they still be honored by CO or will we have ticket changes to DL or NW/AF/KLM?
Please give us a warning (like you did with the new award redemption fees) on the exact cost of the new skysaver prices outside of the D48 (since you acknowledged they are increasing). This will allow people to book there plans now at the lower redemption tier than it will become soon.
No need to drop the overnight bomb on us like you guys pulled with all of the fees that were announced overnight in April....that makes customers angry.
No one likes it when we are unhappy.....
Also, what about award flights booked on Continental 11 months out from now.....ie. June 2009. Will they still be honored by CO or will we have ticket changes to DL or NW/AF/KLM?
Jul 25, 2008, 4:29 pm
#8
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Q: When is your three-tiered award structure being implemented? Last we heard was late Summer?
A: We are finalizing all of the technology testing right now around the new award structure, and although we’ve had a few hiccups, it appears to be on target for an early September soft-launch. We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability. The first lowest level will be similar to the Saver awards today, the second tier will be expanded availability (varies by market but generally around 50% of all available seats systemwide), and a last seat availability level that goes back to “last seat on the plane.” American, United, Continental and Alaska have all recently announced some award level increases, which we did integrate into the new award structure. We did not however make any adjustments to the D48 – 25K mile award level. Bottom line, there are a couple saver level increases, however the new expanded availability tier is always lower than SkyChoice today, and the new last seat levels are almost always higher than SkyChoice today. Each award level is combinable, and with availability on a flight by flight basis on our website, we move the pricing of an award seat a lot closer to the pricing of a revenue seat. What we anticipate will happen, is that far less “choice” seats will be taken and far more “expanded” tier 2 seats will be taken in combination with saver seats. Moving forward, the only people who should really be using “choice” are those who plan last minute when the flights are full, or who are trying to find awards seats during the most peak special events (e.g. Super Bowl).
A: We are finalizing all of the technology testing right now around the new award structure, and although we’ve had a few hiccups, it appears to be on target for an early September soft-launch. We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability. The first lowest level will be similar to the Saver awards today, the second tier will be expanded availability (varies by market but generally around 50% of all available seats systemwide), and a last seat availability level that goes back to “last seat on the plane.” American, United, Continental and Alaska have all recently announced some award level increases, which we did integrate into the new award structure. We did not however make any adjustments to the D48 – 25K mile award level. Bottom line, there are a couple saver level increases, however the new expanded availability tier is always lower than SkyChoice today, and the new last seat levels are almost always higher than SkyChoice today. Each award level is combinable, and with availability on a flight by flight basis on our website, we move the pricing of an award seat a lot closer to the pricing of a revenue seat. What we anticipate will happen, is that far less “choice” seats will be taken and far more “expanded” tier 2 seats will be taken in combination with saver seats. Moving forward, the only people who should really be using “choice” are those who plan last minute when the flights are full, or who are trying to find awards seats during the most peak special events (e.g. Super Bowl).
The traditional SkyChoice award level that included redeeming SkyMiles even for the last available DL seat on a flight is coming back but it won't be called SkyChoice because doing so would make it more obvious to more DL customers what DL is trying to do.
What is DL doing with this approach? DL is puling another massive marketing trick on SkyMiles customers, a trick that downplays the substantial double digit increase in price for the majority of flight ticket awards; adjusts customer expectations away from standard SkySaver award pricing and toward more routinely redeeming far more expensive award travel than DL and DL's partners have prominently marketed to the general public for many years now; and that brings back traditional SkyChoice awards but under another name at a much higher price than before too.
Whether the general customers will recognize it or not -- and DL doesn't have anything to gain by highlighting this to the public -- if customers fall for this, DL will have effectively devalued miles redeemed for flight travel by at least 45-60% from t24 months ago, and on top of the devaluation comes even more by way of DL's demand for a cash component revenue enhancer being applied to every award ticket redemption.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 25, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Jul 25, 2008, 4:38 pm
#9
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Jul 25, 2008, 4:45 pm
#10
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I don't expect the future DL PMUs I receive in my 2009 PM package will be better for me than NW's current systemwide upgrades, AA's systemwide upgrades or UA's systemwide upgrades.
Jul 25, 2008, 4:53 pm
#11
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 702
The "new" last seat levels are not new at all, but simply a rebranding of what SkyChoice used to offer. This way you can pretend that SkyChoice redemption levels aren't being jacked through the roof.
I suggest that Delta hire Baghdad Bob to handle SkyMiles public relations, since it must be increasingly difficult to announce these sorts of "improvements" with a straight face.
Jul 25, 2008, 5:07 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: DL, SPG (Gold)
Posts: 2,039
We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability.
Since we are not even in August yet, I think this qualifies as Delta offering advance notice given that the new award structure will only roll out sometime after the beginning of September.
Also....for everyone who is jumping at the chance to say that this is a major devaluation.....let's not jump to too many conclusions until the levels are actually announced and we all get some time to put it into actual use.
Jeff did say that they are only changing the Saver mileage requirement to a couple of awards.......and while I don't know how everyone else views 'a couple'......but where I'm from, a couple is 2.
Also....it's not like other airlines aren't raising mileage requirements for awards.....as I recently heard from someone about AA doing just that.
A.J.
Jul 25, 2008, 5:17 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 998
Ummm...did you miss this part of his response on the new award structure?
We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability.
Since we are not even in August yet, I think this qualifies as Delta offering advance notice given that the new award structure will only roll out sometime after the beginning of September.
Also....for everyone who is jumping at the chance to say that this is a major devaluation.....let's not jump to too many conclusions until the levels are actually announced and we all get some time to put it into actual use.
Jeff did say that they are only changing the Saver mileage requirement to a couple of awards.......and while I don't know how everyone else views 'a couple'......but where I'm from, a couple is 2.
Also....it's not like other airlines aren't raising mileage requirements for awards.....as I recently heard from someone about AA doing just that.
A.J.
We also intend to announce the new award structure and award levels in the next 10-14 days, which will include three different levels based on availability.
Since we are not even in August yet, I think this qualifies as Delta offering advance notice given that the new award structure will only roll out sometime after the beginning of September.
Also....for everyone who is jumping at the chance to say that this is a major devaluation.....let's not jump to too many conclusions until the levels are actually announced and we all get some time to put it into actual use.
Jeff did say that they are only changing the Saver mileage requirement to a couple of awards.......and while I don't know how everyone else views 'a couple'......but where I'm from, a couple is 2.
Also....it's not like other airlines aren't raising mileage requirements for awards.....as I recently heard from someone about AA doing just that.
A.J.
I was referring to an official PUBICALLY announcmed statement with the changes in cost.
Oh, and I agree......I also view this whole thing as a way to increase skychoice redemption costs and yet again a devaluation.
Let's not forgot that DL is a leader in frivolous costs with award redemption. Why not forgo the $25/$50 award ticket redemption for GM/PM members?
Jul 25, 2008, 5:31 pm
#14
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1. The current "SkySaver" award in terms of availability and pricing is being positioned to approach extinction.
2. The traditional SkySaver award is being subjected to a substantial price increase and more or less being rebranded as discounted "SkyChoice" in order to push through a massive award price increase that will have the traditional 25k mile award requiring something around 40k miles.
3. The traditional SkyChoice award in terms of last seat availability is coming back under a new name but at a much higher price level than existed back when SkyChoice awards were applicable for last-seat availability too.
There's no getting around the following: this three-tier award structure and the games DL has played in recent times with SkyChoice in terms of name, availability and pricing is nothing but a marketing sleight of hand trick to devalue all miles even further than has already been done but not make it so obvious to the market what they have done.
The paint was on the wall when DL reduced availability for SkyChoice awards even as they continued to call them "SkyChoice". Now the paint is dry and ignoring what has been written by DL is only to DL's advantage and the DL SkyMiles retail customer's disadvantage.
2. The traditional SkySaver award is being subjected to a substantial price increase and more or less being rebranded as discounted "SkyChoice" in order to push through a massive award price increase that will have the traditional 25k mile award requiring something around 40k miles.
3. The traditional SkyChoice award in terms of last seat availability is coming back under a new name but at a much higher price level than existed back when SkyChoice awards were applicable for last-seat availability too.
There's no getting around the following: this three-tier award structure and the games DL has played in recent times with SkyChoice in terms of name, availability and pricing is nothing but a marketing sleight of hand trick to devalue all miles even further than has already been done but not make it so obvious to the market what they have done.
The paint was on the wall when DL reduced availability for SkyChoice awards even as they continued to call them "SkyChoice". Now the paint is dry and ignoring what has been written by DL is only to DL's advantage and the DL SkyMiles retail customer's disadvantage.
Jul 25, 2008, 5:35 pm
#15
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This is rather disingenuous, even by Delta's standards.
The "new" last seat levels are not new at all, but simply a rebranding of what SkyChoice used to offer. This way you can pretend that SkyChoice redemption levels aren't being jacked through the roof.
I suggest that Delta hire Baghdad Bob to handle SkyMiles public relations, since it must be increasingly difficult to announce these sorts of "improvements" with a straight face.
The "new" last seat levels are not new at all, but simply a rebranding of what SkyChoice used to offer. This way you can pretend that SkyChoice redemption levels aren't being jacked through the roof.
I suggest that Delta hire Baghdad Bob to handle SkyMiles public relations, since it must be increasingly difficult to announce these sorts of "improvements" with a straight face.