silkworm

I have noticed several ways of getting free miles for a little work. Certain merchants will let you return merchandise and give you cash back instead of a credit card refund (they prefer it, actually, since it is quicker to do). This is also a cool free cash advance. You can also do this in some universities: enroll for a course, pay for it, then drop out during the 100% refund period. Many schools will send you a check.

My question is: why is this not a popular method? Is this unethical in some people's minds?

bpauker

I wonder why would companies do that. It's customary to refund the money in the form in which it was originally tendered, especially that a typical business takes a 2-3% loss on each credit card transaction. Issuing checks isn't cheap either.

channa

The schools that refund via check are probably a result of government or academic bureaucracy.

The ethical choice you'll have to face with the course enrollment approach is that you're not only utilizing resources from a school (if it's a public university, money that's extremely limited and partly taxpayer funded), but you're also using up a slot for a course potentially needed by a legitimate student.

While I usually am up for a great way to get something for nothing and wouldn't mind pulling this kind of stunt on say a large-scale mass merchant with poor customer service, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable potentially interfering with students trying to get an education.

nako

I don't think it's popular because not as many places will let you get a cash/check refund on a credit card transaction - in fact, many retailers (such as Wal-Mart and Target) will automatically credit the card back for which you made the purchase, once the receipt information is scanned into the system.

Why *any* merchant/organization would do this is beyond me, in fact - they're still on the hook for the merchant fee, and actually end up losing money on that transaction.

Mike

silkworm

Ok, folks... Forget about the "why"... Who cares why? As long as I can get some free miles, then I will consider it. I know for a fact that certain merchants will do this, no questions asked. Of course, to make it worth it, I would have to buy and return, say, a laptop PC for $2K, or even a diamond ring for $15K (can't go higher due to credit limit, doh!). Doing this over a 2x/3x mile promotion (e.g., Delta Am Ex card) would be even better.

Regarding the schools, I did it a couple of times when I was young and naive. Now, I go after the big corporate dogs with profit to burn.

Standby4321

Yes, it IS unethical.

skofarrell

It is unethical in everyone's mind.

chfenton

I like to buy money and return it. Most cruise ships will let you charge casino chips to your cabin account, then you cash in the chips. At the end of the cruise, one master charge is submitted to your cc company and voila, you've got miles for buying cash.

Marathon Man

Ethics or no, I think if the company lets you do a thing like this, then so be it. In fact, I bet they like it in most cases. I mean, who's to say that, upon your first visit to store or company X, you had no intention to do this for mile gains whatsoever!

Here is my speal for supporting the idea:

If that company has a problem in this area, then that company needs to reassess and change its own policies and laws. But maybe THAT costs them too much too!

So, maybe you can let them know about the hole, or just go on collecting... I bet you find no one in there who cares anyway, and tattle-taling on this would ruin it for others who do NOT intend any harm but like an earning every once and a while.

I went to Home Depot and bought $500 worth of tiles to do a floor. Used a miles-earning debit card and PIN and I will earn miles on this purchase.

Did the job and brought back what I did not use. They gave me cash back as this can be done when you used a debit card and have your receipt on you. Since you can get cash back on such debit cards, you can also essentially get cash back on returns involving them as the original purchasing method. I actually had no idea but I like it. I earned so little, however, it should hardly matter.

Now, getting 'cash back' in the way we all normally know it does not earn miles, but this little twist or hole in the system seems to allow that very thing--currently. And if it is 'currently' the law or policy, then ask yourself this: Is it unethical to take advantage of that law? I dunno. I am no lawyer.

A side-example is this: Currently, if you go get cash back at the grocery store, you do not have to pay fees that you might have to pay at a foreign bank's ATM. Everybody knows this, but in a way you have found another legal way to 'beat the system.' And who here wants to blow THAT whistle!?!?!?

SO, seriously, is beating the system considered unethical or just something you are smart enough to take advantage of while it exists in law?

Think tax returns here, people! If you realllly know the laws and read everything, you can find many legal ways to save money and NOT even break any new or old laws in doing so! It is not always publicized but it is available to all who care to save or earn out there. (The rest are lazy)!

So anyway, the stores that give you back cash on returns (or rebate coupons which you send in) are the ones who either let this stuff happen. They either could care less or know no better right now. Or, they may think this is actually a hidden, not so publicized way of drawing in the very types of customers who think this way! I mean, I will shop at stores that do my Home Depot example BECAUSE I can get my miles on returns! So they got my business!

I also bought a product online because it allowed me to get miles for the purchase AND send in a $10 rebate coupon with the UPC code and copy of receipt. I get the miles for the whole amount charged to my card but get back $10 and they like it!

SO if these companies change this stuff for the worse, then we will pay--or not earn any more (which is essentially the same thing).
It's all about deals and rebates and deals and deals!

So take it now while it exists, and don't worry about it.

I will still buy from Home Depot and that company online who gives rebated. They will get my money, and if I get some miles for it, who cares! I do.

We both win.

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If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

cactuspete

And if not, it should be.

Marathon Man, it is one thing to make a bonafide return or to tkae back a few extra tiles left over from the job. It is another thing completely (legal or not) to intentionally go out of your way to take advantage of a merchant.

hhonorman

I agree with cactuspete. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Intentionally buying stuff to return it is unethical in my humble opinion.

silkworm

So is cheating (i.e., adjusting facts) on your tax returns... but everybody does it to a degree. Yes, EVERYBODY does it.

cordelli

If a store does it, they are doing it because they don't want to pay the merchant fee again on the refund, as they are then out of it twice.

I would never consider doing this, all you are doing is hurting the merchant.

rustyr

rustyr

"A side-example is this: Currently, if you go get cash back at the grocery store, you do not have to pay fees that you might have to pay at a foreign bank's ATM. Everybody knows this, but in a way you have found another legal way to 'beat the system.' And who here wants to blow THAT whistle!?!?!?"

I think you can do the same at any post office as they are atm transaction free. Thats nice when you're far from home and need some cash w/no fees. Would buying money orders w/ccards then rtrng m/o for $ work? PSS..ORD and SLC ahve 24-7 poffices on airport grounds; would imagine most airports have them.


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