dick tracy

Anyone else on UA#1553 to Las Vegas to LA today that had no pilot? They boarded the flight, everyone was seated and then they announced that we were delayed since we had no pilot. He has just left LAX.
How can no one in Las Vegas know the pilot wasn't here?

Oh well!

njm

Maybe this could be one of the Ask-a-Pilot questions... "Where did you run off to when you were scheduled to fly 1553?"

Starman

As you can see scanning many other threads here, there has been a virtual implosion of crew scheduling on UA since last month. 6 of 8 legs I've had on UA since then have been more than 1 hour late, with two cancelled, and every other 1K/GS I know has the same story. It's really pretty sad. Anyway, UA's policy has almost always been "if by some miracle the equipment is here, board the flight and hope for another miracle even though we know we have no crew", since if you don't board, pax wander away, pester UA staff, and you end up with even longer delays.

CTAnderson

Same thing happened to me from LAX to ORD on 1/2. We boarded and the FA's said that there was no pilots. No problem I thought, we'll just chill out.

30 minutes later, the FA's come on and say "Zone says we have to de-board the plane and take all bags with you". Every single FA without exception says that in their years of service they have never heard of taking the bags off like that.

When the pilots arrived they looked really pissed off. The captain came on and said that they were stuck at the hotel without transportation, they had called United a number of times and the shuttle never came. If this is true (which I think it is), how pathetic that UA can't even get that right.

jan_az

Well gee - its a $10 cab ride from the crew hotels at LAX to the terminal. I think they could have managed that

TonySCV

Or the hotel-provided complimentary airport shuttle?

gumpfs

Believe it or not, the company has just told us that it's in our contract to pay for a taxi from the airport to the hotel, but not from the hotel back to the airport. They had always reimbursed us in the past, but they've actually denied it recently because it's not in the contract. And from many of our layovers (like the LAX one mentioned, or ORD, or SFO, or IAD, or JFK, etc.), it's more like a $40-$60 cab ride (at LAX we normally stay in Redondo Beach). So is it really any surprise that in the current climate, since the contract says the company will provide transportation to the airport, that the pilots wait for the company provided transportation? If I got denied a claim for paying for a cab to the airport, should I do it again?

But that's not what happened in this case. I did a lot of research, and while I can't find out everything, here's what I know. Your originally scheduled captain (SFO based, I actually know him pretty well - nice guy), was illegal to fly his entire trip since he'd been working so much in the last week. So he was pulled off the LAS-LAX segment to deadhead, and an LAX based captain was assigned to deadhead on 1574 to LAS to fly one leg back to LAX. Well, the airplane arrived on time, but the flight crew for 1574 to LAS was coming in on 806 from SAL. For whatever reason, 806 stopped in Mexico City today (it's normally a non-stop), causing a late arrival into LAX for the crew. Since the reserve captain can't fly the airplane by himself, he was obligated to wait for the inbound crew. Instead of departing just after noon, they left at 4:11, and 1533 back to LAX actually pushed 16 minutes after the block in of 1574, which I say was pretty good for the reserve captain. You can see how this quickly gets complicated, and if it were me, I'd be happy the flight operated! They probably wanted to board and be ready so that when the captain did arrive, they could push a few minutes later.

ajthegreat

I thought the SAL flights were run by LAX based crews. Does that mean they do a turn of some sort after the INTL legs? Maybe LAS based? hmm

jan_az

I would agree with you gumps, but being a former Manhattan Beach resident, I am quite aware of what a cab costs to LAX.

Also , this is a pilot who makes 6 figures we are talking about here - not an FA. I know if I have to be at work at a certain time - I better be there.

UALPilotDC

Whoa......it doesn't matter what one makes (besides that its inaccurate). Thats irrelevant to this discussion.

The pilots were ready and willing to work. It is the COMPANY'S responsibility to provide safe transportation to get to/from the layover hotels.

LAX is the worst situation in the system right now since the company, to save money, has the employees ride the DSS bus (LAX airport sponsored bus) that serves a majority of the airport hotels. Pretty much an everyday occurance that it takes two or three busses before there is even room for a crew to get on. And if its standing room only....sorry thats not safe for the crews (or the pax) see the employee shuttle accident Delta had recently in ATL. Well this hotel buss then stops at all the terminals at LAX before getting to UAL's. What should be a 5-10 minute ride has been taking over and hour at times.....

Everything ran smoothly when we used a private van service just for the crews.


If a flight is late because a crew was left at the hotel, waiting on transportation as scheduled, but none shows up.....that is a management failure, not the crews.

DC

das

I agree with you - the responsibility of the flight crew is to be ready for pickup at the designated time. If UA won't reimburse for alternative transportation (which is penny-wise, pound foolish IMHO), I'm not sure what alternative crew members have to do besides inform the company and wait.

Stories like this make me frustrated because it seems like simple management competence (such as the crew desk authorizing reimbursement for a cab) could solve the issue and avoid a needless delay.

prestonh

Agree completely with you. Sounds like the same contract they have with the baggage delivery folks (lot's of waiting there). Now I don't feel so bad asking for compensation when there are crew availability issues on my delayed/cxld flights.

NH_Clark

I too agree. Not knowing a 100% of the complete story, but with what gumpfs (thank you for looking into it) shared so far, my opinion is that the blame falls solely on the shoulders of UA mgmt.

jan_az

Guess I was brought up in a different time and attitude. If my company sponsored transportation failed to arrive on time and I had 50 or so people waiting for me to train them - I got myself there somehow someway and worried about getting reinbursed later. Obviously, times have changed.

NH_Clark

I see your point but it is a different day and age. Let's go down the hypothetical path. What if you knew that even if you took it on the chin to get to where you needed to be, your company would tell you to go pound sand if you asked to be reimbursed. And, what if your only recourse was to take it with a smile or quit. How many times would you "get there somehow, someway" before you began emulating the attitude of the company you work for and not go the extra mile?

UA gets no sympathy from me for their pound-wise, penny-foolish management approach.