Ongoing problems with OS(VO) Bombardier DASH 8/400
Feb 3, 2003, 5:28 am
#1
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Ongoing problems with OS(VO) Bombardier DASH 8/400
In case of the DASH 8/400 it seems to be a never-ending story (after around 60 flight cancellations on the FRA-SZG route in 2002):
http://www.aua.com/news/detail.asp?i...c=alle&lang=en
"Safety Is and Remains Our Supreme Commandment"
Comprehensive action plan for Dash 8/400 immediately initiated by Tyrolean Airways
AAG calls for greater commitment on the part of aircraft manufacturer Bombardier
“I have made it absolutely clear to Laurent Beaudoin, the Chairman of Bombardier Inc, the manufacturers of the Dash 8 / 400, that we are now calling for massive support in eliminating the technical problems we are having with this aircraft type,” stated Vagn Soerensen, CEO of the Austrian Airlines Group, at the start of a press conference to present a package of measures for the Tyrolean Airways Dash 8 / 400 fleet. “I whould like to express my personal apologies to all our customers who were affected by flight cancellations and suffered inconvenience as a result. I assure you that we are doing everything in our power to restore the usual reliability and punctuality of our services as quickly as possible,” Soerensen added.
Soerensen´s declaration was made as a result of the recent incident involving a Dash 8 / 400 belonging to the Austrian Airlines Group carrier Tyrolean Airways, in which a wheel detached from the starboard side of the aircraft´s dual undercarriage at Frankfurt Airport. During summer 2002 there had been an increase in the number of flight cancellations, particularly on the Salzburg – Frankfurt – Salzburg route. These delays were due to necessary technical adaptation work on the electronics of the Dash 8 / 400 aircraft used to operate services on this route. The majority of these teething troubles had been eliminated by the end of October 2002 thanks to a comprehensive raft of measures undertaken by the Tyrolean technical services department. The latest incident was in no way connected with these earlier problems, said Soerensen.
Dr. Walter Bock, as Chief Operations Officer responsible for Flight Operations, Technical Services and Ground Services, emphasised that safety is the top priority of the entire Austrian Airlines Group: “Although many passengers have been irritated by flight cancellations, the supreme commandment is and remains that we only take off if all the aircraft´s safety systems are functioning perfectly. This will continue to be the case in future. Our group carrier Tyrolean Airways has been operating safely and without accident since its founding 23 years ago.
Like any other aircraft, the Dash 8 / 400 is equipped with multiple back-up systems as a matter of course. This means that the irregularities that arose in the operation of this aircraft did not represent a safety problem, nor were passengers and crews exposed to danger at any time.”
“Our image has suffered greatly as a result of this series of technical problems and I can well understand the annoyance of the affected passengers. This concerns me all the more when I think that the Tyrolean Airways fleet, with an average aircraft age of 4.8 years, is one of the youngest worldwide and that the Dash 8 / 400 is the most modern, economical and environmentally friendly turboprop aircraft currently available,” said Johann Messner, Managing Director of Tyrolean Airways. Messner went on to outline the action plan for immediate implementation: “My entire team is working flat out to further improve the operational reliability of the Dash 8 / 400 fleet. The first of a total of three modification programmes on this aircraft type was already carried out at the beginning of 2001. In consultation with the Group management Tyrolean Airways has now adopted the following additional measures for immediate implementation”:
1. A comprehensive modification programme, the fourth of its kind at this stage, will get under way in the next few days. This will essentially focus on further optimisation of the electronics and software programs, as well as on adaptation of technical components in the hydraulic systems.
2. In response to the latest incident the undercarriages of all seven other Dash 8 / 400 aircraft currently in the fleet have been subjected to an in-depth inspection to detect possible hairline cracks. Although the undercarriages were found to be in perfect order, as an additional precautionary measure the intervals between inspections will be shortened in future.
3. The detached wheel is currently undergoing comprehensive metallurgical testing at an institute specialising in this field to establish beyond all doubt what caused the wheel nut to break.
4. 9 additional specialists with exclusive responsibility for the Dash 8 / 400 have been added to the Tyrolean Airways technical services team, which now numbers 145 highly-qualified technicians.
5. The Dash 8 / 400 maintenance depot has been equipped with additional spare parts to the value of EUR 600,000 to enable technical components to be replaced even more quickly in future. Furthermore, Bombardier was requested to provide further components free of cost.
6. Within Austria the Dash 8 / 400 will only operate to and from airports where a large maintenance team is on hand, as is the case at Vienna, Innsbruck and Altenrhein airport.
7. Effective from today the Salzburg – Frankfurt – Salzburg route will be operated by a Fokker 70 aircraft. In addition, a dedicated technical maintenance organisation will also be set up in Salzburg, comprising up to 6 technicians of whom three will be Fokker 70 specialists.
8. The aircraft manufacturer Bombardier Inc. will provide a replacement aircraft for a period of at least 6 months in order to create scope for greater operational flexibility
9. A “Quick Response Team” will be installed at the manufacturer´s works. This team of technical experts will be on hand to analyse any problems that occur immediately and offer reliable solutions for all carriers operating Dash 8 / 400 aircraft.
10. An additional team of engineers from Bombardier Inc. will support the specialists from Tyrolean in their base in Innsbruck to analyse the cause of the defects and find reliable solutions.
11. Until all the defects have been completely eliminated, the Austrian Airlines Group will refrain from placing further orders with Bombardier.
http://www.aua.com/news/detail.asp?i...c=alle&lang=en
"Safety Is and Remains Our Supreme Commandment"
Comprehensive action plan for Dash 8/400 immediately initiated by Tyrolean Airways
AAG calls for greater commitment on the part of aircraft manufacturer Bombardier
“I have made it absolutely clear to Laurent Beaudoin, the Chairman of Bombardier Inc, the manufacturers of the Dash 8 / 400, that we are now calling for massive support in eliminating the technical problems we are having with this aircraft type,” stated Vagn Soerensen, CEO of the Austrian Airlines Group, at the start of a press conference to present a package of measures for the Tyrolean Airways Dash 8 / 400 fleet. “I whould like to express my personal apologies to all our customers who were affected by flight cancellations and suffered inconvenience as a result. I assure you that we are doing everything in our power to restore the usual reliability and punctuality of our services as quickly as possible,” Soerensen added.
Soerensen´s declaration was made as a result of the recent incident involving a Dash 8 / 400 belonging to the Austrian Airlines Group carrier Tyrolean Airways, in which a wheel detached from the starboard side of the aircraft´s dual undercarriage at Frankfurt Airport. During summer 2002 there had been an increase in the number of flight cancellations, particularly on the Salzburg – Frankfurt – Salzburg route. These delays were due to necessary technical adaptation work on the electronics of the Dash 8 / 400 aircraft used to operate services on this route. The majority of these teething troubles had been eliminated by the end of October 2002 thanks to a comprehensive raft of measures undertaken by the Tyrolean technical services department. The latest incident was in no way connected with these earlier problems, said Soerensen.
Dr. Walter Bock, as Chief Operations Officer responsible for Flight Operations, Technical Services and Ground Services, emphasised that safety is the top priority of the entire Austrian Airlines Group: “Although many passengers have been irritated by flight cancellations, the supreme commandment is and remains that we only take off if all the aircraft´s safety systems are functioning perfectly. This will continue to be the case in future. Our group carrier Tyrolean Airways has been operating safely and without accident since its founding 23 years ago.
Like any other aircraft, the Dash 8 / 400 is equipped with multiple back-up systems as a matter of course. This means that the irregularities that arose in the operation of this aircraft did not represent a safety problem, nor were passengers and crews exposed to danger at any time.”
“Our image has suffered greatly as a result of this series of technical problems and I can well understand the annoyance of the affected passengers. This concerns me all the more when I think that the Tyrolean Airways fleet, with an average aircraft age of 4.8 years, is one of the youngest worldwide and that the Dash 8 / 400 is the most modern, economical and environmentally friendly turboprop aircraft currently available,” said Johann Messner, Managing Director of Tyrolean Airways. Messner went on to outline the action plan for immediate implementation: “My entire team is working flat out to further improve the operational reliability of the Dash 8 / 400 fleet. The first of a total of three modification programmes on this aircraft type was already carried out at the beginning of 2001. In consultation with the Group management Tyrolean Airways has now adopted the following additional measures for immediate implementation”:
1. A comprehensive modification programme, the fourth of its kind at this stage, will get under way in the next few days. This will essentially focus on further optimisation of the electronics and software programs, as well as on adaptation of technical components in the hydraulic systems.
2. In response to the latest incident the undercarriages of all seven other Dash 8 / 400 aircraft currently in the fleet have been subjected to an in-depth inspection to detect possible hairline cracks. Although the undercarriages were found to be in perfect order, as an additional precautionary measure the intervals between inspections will be shortened in future.
3. The detached wheel is currently undergoing comprehensive metallurgical testing at an institute specialising in this field to establish beyond all doubt what caused the wheel nut to break.
4. 9 additional specialists with exclusive responsibility for the Dash 8 / 400 have been added to the Tyrolean Airways technical services team, which now numbers 145 highly-qualified technicians.
5. The Dash 8 / 400 maintenance depot has been equipped with additional spare parts to the value of EUR 600,000 to enable technical components to be replaced even more quickly in future. Furthermore, Bombardier was requested to provide further components free of cost.
6. Within Austria the Dash 8 / 400 will only operate to and from airports where a large maintenance team is on hand, as is the case at Vienna, Innsbruck and Altenrhein airport.
7. Effective from today the Salzburg – Frankfurt – Salzburg route will be operated by a Fokker 70 aircraft. In addition, a dedicated technical maintenance organisation will also be set up in Salzburg, comprising up to 6 technicians of whom three will be Fokker 70 specialists.
8. The aircraft manufacturer Bombardier Inc. will provide a replacement aircraft for a period of at least 6 months in order to create scope for greater operational flexibility
9. A “Quick Response Team” will be installed at the manufacturer´s works. This team of technical experts will be on hand to analyse any problems that occur immediately and offer reliable solutions for all carriers operating Dash 8 / 400 aircraft.
10. An additional team of engineers from Bombardier Inc. will support the specialists from Tyrolean in their base in Innsbruck to analyse the cause of the defects and find reliable solutions.
11. Until all the defects have been completely eliminated, the Austrian Airlines Group will refrain from placing further orders with Bombardier.
Sep 12, 2007, 1:33 am
#2
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 239
again but on SAS
Possibly the thread name is now not relevant, but the air plane type is.
Have you seen that SAS has had to emergeny land with this typ of plane 2 TIMES within the 2 last days.
This brings a lot of questions to me.
What is up with Bombardier? Theay have apparently told SAS after the first incident that it was a single case. This implies to me that Bombardier is not taking this as seriously as ... I don't know ...
It also brings up memories of many crashes with comuter planes. Are these type of planes still way behind in safety relative to the bigger jets (737 320 and so on...)?
Ultimately can I as a passenger refuse to board a plane if I don't like the plane? And be re-book to later flight for no fee? Example normal schedule equipment should have been a 737, but for what ever reason SAS is showing up with a Dash..?
Regards
Have you seen that SAS has had to emergeny land with this typ of plane 2 TIMES within the 2 last days.
This brings a lot of questions to me.
What is up with Bombardier? Theay have apparently told SAS after the first incident that it was a single case. This implies to me that Bombardier is not taking this as seriously as ... I don't know ...
It also brings up memories of many crashes with comuter planes. Are these type of planes still way behind in safety relative to the bigger jets (737 320 and so on...)?
Ultimately can I as a passenger refuse to board a plane if I don't like the plane? And be re-book to later flight for no fee? Example normal schedule equipment should have been a 737, but for what ever reason SAS is showing up with a Dash..?
Regards
Sep 12, 2007, 3:08 am
#3
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HAM
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As far as I just heard on the radio, Bombardier has recommended to keep all Dash8/400 aircrafts on the ground until further inspections have been made. They said that Lufthansa so far was not able to say how they will handle this, concerning their code shares with SAS and thei regional partners that fly this type of aircraft.
Sep 12, 2007, 4:27 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Augsburg Airways cancelled today's flights to MUC ( I recall Geneva being on the schedule)
One of the Dash birdies was already in Hamburg, the other three are on their way to be checked by LH Technik.
Happy flying!
One of the Dash birdies was already in Hamburg, the other three are on their way to be checked by LH Technik.
Happy flying!
Sep 12, 2007, 6:35 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: INN
Posts: 2,907
Outch. I managed to get back home safely last night on the last FRA-INN flight which was served with D8-400 unexpectedly. Maybe that was to circle one more of them in for maintenance in INN after the first SAS incident.
Sep 12, 2007, 6:35 am
#8
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HAM
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Posts: 98
Video of the crash
Sep 12, 2007, 7:08 am
#9
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Unbelievable, I have more then 300 flights on the Dash 8-400.
Sep 12, 2007, 7:34 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 239
Thanks for the video.
I have to give it to SAS staff that they sounded really good on the second emergency landing. Pilots turning off the engin before landing to avoid fire and FA preparing all passengers really well.
Still I am not happy bording anything smaller than 737, or 319
I have to give it to SAS staff that they sounded really good on the second emergency landing. Pilots turning off the engin before landing to avoid fire and FA preparing all passengers really well.
Still I am not happy bording anything smaller than 737, or 319
Sep 12, 2007, 9:17 am
#11
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Bombardier has recommended grounding all Q400s with more than 10000 cycles. SK was the first customer of this wonderful robust aircraft, so it is natural that they encountered this problem first if it indeed is a design flaw.
How old are the ones OS and Augsburg Airlines fly?
How old are the ones OS and Augsburg Airlines fly?
Sep 12, 2007, 10:28 am
#12
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Sep 12, 2007, 11:11 am
#13
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Flybe in the UK grounded two of theirs for checks today. On their website it states the concern only affects those aircraft that have done more than 10,000 landings.
Sep 12, 2007, 1:47 pm
#14
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Sep 12, 2007, 4:58 pm
#15
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FlyBe in the UK grounding most of their Q400's. Just got a call cancelling my flight at 0800 tomorrow.
I am a former pilot and I can say that this aircraft is the most problematic I have flown as a pax. And its not just landing gear issues. In 3 years I have 3 aborted takeoffs due to "software issues", 1 stuck landing gear and numerous tech delays and cancellations. It also has a ridiculous weight and balance characteristic wherby everyone needs to sit in the back when not totally full leaving first 5-6 rows empty. What other commercial modern aircraft must do this ? This plane is wholly unsuited for commercial aviation and should be withdrawn. Just a brief list of major incidents:
Oct 2000
SAS grounds all planes of type Dash8/Q400 after a long series of instrumental problems.
SAS Q400s are out of service pending inspection of pitot/static system after an aircraft landed at Copenhagen with no speed or height information.
Jan 01
SAS Commuter and Bombardier work together to fix on going Dash Q400 problems.
Feb 01
Scandinavian carrier SAS Commuter is to ground all of its Canadian built turbo prop planes beacause of recurring inflight technical problems.
Jan 02
All Q400 grounded due to a crack found in main landing gear. This is after multiple problems with the fleet, including many unsafe gears, uplocked gear, hydraulic leaks and losses of quantity in one system, many faults related to vibration, parts of structure fallen off in flight, excessive wear on hoses, uplock hooks.
Sas examines 21 dash 8 Q400 planes for possible bolt defects.
Jan 03
An SAS (SK) Dash 8 Q400 had to make an emergency landing in Stavanger.
SAS Commuter had to ground it’s Dash8 Q400 fleet after several instances of false smoke warnings from the cargo hold resulting in multiple emergency landings.
Sep 07
Many SAS flights cancelled due to technical faults.
Sep 07
SAS Dash 8 Q400 makes emergency landing in Denmark due to landing gear failure.
Sept 12 Crash in Vilnius
I am a former pilot and I can say that this aircraft is the most problematic I have flown as a pax. And its not just landing gear issues. In 3 years I have 3 aborted takeoffs due to "software issues", 1 stuck landing gear and numerous tech delays and cancellations. It also has a ridiculous weight and balance characteristic wherby everyone needs to sit in the back when not totally full leaving first 5-6 rows empty. What other commercial modern aircraft must do this ? This plane is wholly unsuited for commercial aviation and should be withdrawn. Just a brief list of major incidents:
Oct 2000
SAS grounds all planes of type Dash8/Q400 after a long series of instrumental problems.
SAS Q400s are out of service pending inspection of pitot/static system after an aircraft landed at Copenhagen with no speed or height information.
Jan 01
SAS Commuter and Bombardier work together to fix on going Dash Q400 problems.
Feb 01
Scandinavian carrier SAS Commuter is to ground all of its Canadian built turbo prop planes beacause of recurring inflight technical problems.
Jan 02
All Q400 grounded due to a crack found in main landing gear. This is after multiple problems with the fleet, including many unsafe gears, uplocked gear, hydraulic leaks and losses of quantity in one system, many faults related to vibration, parts of structure fallen off in flight, excessive wear on hoses, uplock hooks.
Sas examines 21 dash 8 Q400 planes for possible bolt defects.
Jan 03
An SAS (SK) Dash 8 Q400 had to make an emergency landing in Stavanger.
SAS Commuter had to ground it’s Dash8 Q400 fleet after several instances of false smoke warnings from the cargo hold resulting in multiple emergency landings.
Sep 07
Many SAS flights cancelled due to technical faults.
Sep 07
SAS Dash 8 Q400 makes emergency landing in Denmark due to landing gear failure.
Sept 12 Crash in Vilnius