uva185

Well I'm sitting here filling out a 40 page security clearence form for a student internship at a federal government agency. There is a part that asks for your international travel history for the past 7 years. They want to know about every tip including day trips to Mexico and Canada. For the sake of filling this form out luckily I ave not done any international mileage runs. But has anyone had any problems obtaining or keeping a security clearence while doing numerous international mileage runs. I don't even want to know how long it would take some of you guys to fill out this section

obscure2k

This seems like a good fit for the TS/S Forum.
Obscure2
TravelBuzz Moderator

mbstone

First of all, be happy that you are being offered the chance to apply for a clearance. They are worth substantial amounts of extra salary in the DC area job marketplace. Also, you are filling out the form at a young age and presumably you have not had any significant life events that would hurt your chances.

The federal government officially claims travel is broadening, which it is, and officially encourages clearance holders to travel. The reality is that you could receive some amount of hassle for travelling of which having to fill out forms could be only the beginning. Depending on what country, what government agency, and what clearance level you have, you could have to report foreign travel after the fact, or even get permission before the fact.

Ask your Facility Security Officer about "mileage runs" and see what he or she says and get back to us.

thezipper

The form for Secret wasn't too bad... guess you are going for a TS... yea, I had my passport out to "remember" every int'l trip AND the dates... filled out a whole legal pad with the trips I took... hate to have to do that again as my Int'l runs for work and play have increased exponentially over the years... never had a problem with my clearance, but don't worry, I hear there is an ~18 month backlog so you still have time to get in a few Int'l runs before they process you

jonesing

Spot on! It all comes down to the agency/projects you're working on. I've been on some that "strongly discouraged" OCONUS travel (yeah, even USVI, PR or Hawaii ) and there have been others where the controlling agency didn't much care about day trips to Canada or Mexico. A few however were verrrry specific: Canada? Well they didn't really count EU? okay. Asia? Depends...Japan was okay, Hong Kong (pre-China) was okay, China was a big fat NO!

I've got a cruise next year and one of the ports of call is Columbia. Just for the afternoon but let me tell you, I turned in the itinerary details NOW and Security is hashing it out... I don't forsee a problem but anything can happen in a year.

MRs are not as esoteric as they used to be but those overnight deals may still put off some of the more conservative agencies. You know, the ones who don't keep up with pop culture enough to know that $300 for jeans or a 4 hour layover at LHR for a quick hop across the pond and back aren't that unusual. Definately inform your FSO of your penchant for travel and start a dialogue about MRs including the fact that some folks will indeed fly to the EU for < 8 hours if the Fare Mistake & Mileage Gods are in a favoring mood.

MikeInMass

MRs, and even international e-savers, would seem pretty much out of the question for someone who has to get permission for the trip 30 days ahead of time, and for whom three personal trips abroad in a year would attract the attention of Those In Authority. At least that was what I gathered from this post; the early pages of that thread might be informative to the OP.

jonesing

PS I know I shouldn't have to tell you this but ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LIE even if knowingly lie by ommision on the security paperwork! Had a guy get his clearance suspended temporarily because he lied about using cocaine a few times in college! It was no biggie but the investigators had interviewed 3 of the personal references he listed. What he wasn't prepared for was that the investigators "cultivated" 3 ADDITIONAL references from those folks...people he didn't list on his paperwork. You guessed it, the 3 friends he listed were "coached" by him but since he didn't know about the other 3...well they pretty much confirmed what had already been said but they also gave up the partying and drug use information.

He eventually got his clearance back but for a while there he wasn't sure if he would. He had to work on some BS busywork in the interim. If his clearance got revoked he would have been dismissed in the blink of an eye!

FliesWay2Much

I've held clearances at various levels for over 30 years. As others have said, absolutely do not leave out any foreign trips. Your list will be long, but look on the bright side -- you'll only have to do this once. You'll have the list in your computer ready for updating every five years. I would do it in a MS Word file and include it as an attachment.

When you have your subject interview, that's the time to explain all your foreign travel and the reason for most of your trips. Unfortunately, some trips taken by some fairly notorious spies resemble MRs -- recurring trips to the same city (Mexico City and Geneva come to mind) for short periods of time. Be completely forthcoming and honest and the worst they can say is "No."

After you get your clearance, follow all the foreign travel rules to the letter. If it costs you a MR or two, that's the price of getting your clearance along with greater job security and a highly marketable addition to your resume.

Bart

I remember when I was subject-interviewed for a periodic reinvestigation (or "bring-up") conducted by a young DIS agent who was accompanied by a senior agent. The senior agent knew me and what I did for a living. And I cooperated fully, resisting the urge to be coy until he got to the part when he asked me if I ever had any contact with hostile foreign intelligence agencies. I paused, glanced over at the senior agent who shrugged his shoulders and raised his eyebrows in amusement.

I smiled at the younger agent and said, "why yes, on numerous occasions."

The kid just about fell out of his chair and began asking follow up questions. I responded, "sorry, but you just don't have the need-to-know for that information."

The senior agent intervened and rescued the kid by explaining who I was and what I did for a living. Made for a good laugh, and the kid was a good sport about it.

whirledtraveler

I was asked a while ago to get a clearance for some possible consulting work. I travel internationally quite a bit, and I have no idea how many trips I've taken abroad. Long story, short: life's too short for that. They'll have to find someone with more patience and better record-keeping.

etch5895

Luckily, holding a secret as opposed to a TS has saved me a lot of heartache. My vacations are almost exclusively overseas, and I'd have no way of remembering dates, etc. My security manager informed me that the only people they really worry about regarding overseas travel are those with TS clearances. Of course, I don't MR in the true sense of the phrase, either, but I have gone to Europe over a 4-day weekend.

ralfp

Does it count if you don't clear customs/immigration? Say for a MR, if you never "enter" the country, have you been there?

How about a walk around the table at the DMZ? Does that have to be declared as an entry into the DPRK?

exerda

For those holding collateral-only clearances (C/S/TS), your FSO may be more lenient on the 30 day notice requirement. I know ours is, as we've had a few cleared people give her only a week or two's notice (or notice after the fact ), and she just notes everything in the files Security keeps on hand for reference during the next periodic review. I wouldn't get in the habit of bending the rules, though, even if your FSO allows it!

However, I've got one friend whose company wanted to send him to South Korea for company business, and his FSO said they'd have to read him off of a couple of compartments to make the trip--which would have been a major pain, as getting read back on can take time (I waited nearly 10 months after being cleared, for instance, for our company to find a govvie willing to read us on to the compartments we had access to).

exerda

In terms of clearance, I would definitely disclose such a trip as foreign travel, even if you didn't actually clear customs. Explain that to the investigator or your FSO and explain it was for a mileage run (and perhaps what a MR is). To not disclose it as foreign travel risks making the government feel you're concealing something.

Better to give too much info, IMHO, and let them sort it out.

skAAtinsteph

You also need to give them a heads up ahead of time in the future if you plan on travelling abroad. They probably won't ask you too many questions about your past trips.

Also, VERY IMPORTANT - print out and keep multiple copies when you are done filling the forms all out. You will need to refer to those papers many times in the future and will be so thankful all the information is all in one place.