QF387/388 SIN-MEL possibly ending
Dec 14, 2005, 3:26 pm
#1
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QF387/388 SIN-MEL possibly ending
For those that don't frequent the BA board, may be interested to know that it looks like BA17/18 and QF388/387 will be ceasing their run to MEL next year http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503473
Dave
Dave
Dec 14, 2005, 3:56 pm
#2
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Not good news if - as the BA thead suggests - this becomes reality.
The primary source for WT+ seating ex MEL disappears.
The suggestion on the BA thread seems to be that it's not so much about loads but yields - that MEL is simply too far and BA can make far more money operating the 744 into China and India than to MEL (which is the equivalent to 3 sectors due turnaround).
If that is the case, then surely the same economical constraints apply to SYD. Can we expect BA to pull from SYD in the future?
BD
The primary source for WT+ seating ex MEL disappears.
The suggestion on the BA thread seems to be that it's not so much about loads but yields - that MEL is simply too far and BA can make far more money operating the 744 into China and India than to MEL (which is the equivalent to 3 sectors due turnaround).
If that is the case, then surely the same economical constraints apply to SYD. Can we expect BA to pull from SYD in the future?
BD
Dec 14, 2005, 4:05 pm
#3
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Talked to a friend who works for BA. He suggests that its nearly impossible to get good yields on the routes to Australia for reasons outlined above, also the route attracts lots of backpackers which neccessiates the offerring of low fares; however BA still hangs on to Australia for 'symbolic' reasons.
Dec 14, 2005, 4:17 pm
#4
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Originally Posted by BD1959
If that is the case, then surely the same economical constraints apply to SYD. Can we expect BA to pull from SYD in the future?
Dec 14, 2005, 8:43 pm
#5
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Originally Posted by GibSpmuh
I was under the impression they were sending the 70J version of the 747 to SYD, but only the 38J version to MEL - methinks they'd have better loads up the pointy end of the plane from SYD in that case, which helps offset carrying all the backpackers down the back (and there's less cheapo seats they need to fill out of SYD too in that case).
Dec 15, 2005, 12:41 am
#6
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CHANGES TO MELBOURNE-LONDON SERVICES
SYDNEY, 15 December 2005: Qantas will double the number of its direct Boeing 747-400 flights between Melbourne and London from seven to 14 each week from 26 March 2006.
The additional Qantas daily service will operate via Hong Kong, offering Victorian customers a new transit option for travel to the UK.
The Qantas flight will replace British Airways’ daily Melbourne-Singapore-London service, which will now operate London-Singapore-London. British Airways will codeshare on the Qantas services to London via Hong Kong.
Qantas Head of Sales and Marketing, Rob Gurney, said the schedule changes were a good example of how the Joint Services Agreement (JSA) between Qantas and British Airways worked to benefit customers.
“These second daily Qantas UK services will give Qantas and British Airways customers in Victoria the option to fly to London via Hong Kong for the first time, as well as via Singapore,” Mr Gurney said.
British Airways area general manager Asia Pacific, Jenny Lourey, said: “British Airways will now offer the earliest evening departure from Singapore to London, providing easier connections with our European and domestic network, and giving customers connecting through Singapore from other Australian states greater access to services to London.
“We remain committed to the Australian market and we will continue to operate twice daily services between Sydney and London via Singapore and Bangkok.”
Mr Gurney said the Qantas schedule change involved redirecting the airline’s current four Sydney-Hong Kong-London services to Melbourne and adding a further three flights.
“Under the new schedule, we will offer double daily flights from both Sydney and Melbourne to London, allowing us to more closely match capacity to demand,” he said.
“We will also be able to offer Victorian customers our three class B747-400 product to Hong Kong for the first time.”
Under the JSA, Qantas and British Airways will operate 42 return services each week between Australia and the UK from 26 March 2006.
SYDNEY, 15 December 2005: Qantas will double the number of its direct Boeing 747-400 flights between Melbourne and London from seven to 14 each week from 26 March 2006.
The additional Qantas daily service will operate via Hong Kong, offering Victorian customers a new transit option for travel to the UK.
The Qantas flight will replace British Airways’ daily Melbourne-Singapore-London service, which will now operate London-Singapore-London. British Airways will codeshare on the Qantas services to London via Hong Kong.
Qantas Head of Sales and Marketing, Rob Gurney, said the schedule changes were a good example of how the Joint Services Agreement (JSA) between Qantas and British Airways worked to benefit customers.
“These second daily Qantas UK services will give Qantas and British Airways customers in Victoria the option to fly to London via Hong Kong for the first time, as well as via Singapore,” Mr Gurney said.
British Airways area general manager Asia Pacific, Jenny Lourey, said: “British Airways will now offer the earliest evening departure from Singapore to London, providing easier connections with our European and domestic network, and giving customers connecting through Singapore from other Australian states greater access to services to London.
“We remain committed to the Australian market and we will continue to operate twice daily services between Sydney and London via Singapore and Bangkok.”
Mr Gurney said the Qantas schedule change involved redirecting the airline’s current four Sydney-Hong Kong-London services to Melbourne and adding a further three flights.
“Under the new schedule, we will offer double daily flights from both Sydney and Melbourne to London, allowing us to more closely match capacity to demand,” he said.
“We will also be able to offer Victorian customers our three class B747-400 product to Hong Kong for the first time.”
Under the JSA, Qantas and British Airways will operate 42 return services each week between Australia and the UK from 26 March 2006.
Dec 15, 2005, 1:32 am
#7
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I have suspected this for some time...
I have to say that I suspected this was going to happen.
BA has been releaseing promotion after promotion on these flights for the best part of a couple of years. This has included the 'one way upgrade' fares (buy Y get one way WT+, buy WT+ get one way J, buy J get one way F), and very cheap fares to SIN. I also bought a ridiculously cheap fare MEL-LHR a year ago on BA17/18 in J for AUD4200 incl all taxes (departure in Jan) - First at the time was AUD7000.
So no surprises.
Regards
L/M/E FF
BA has been releaseing promotion after promotion on these flights for the best part of a couple of years. This has included the 'one way upgrade' fares (buy Y get one way WT+, buy WT+ get one way J, buy J get one way F), and very cheap fares to SIN. I also bought a ridiculously cheap fare MEL-LHR a year ago on BA17/18 in J for AUD4200 incl all taxes (departure in Jan) - First at the time was AUD7000.
So no surprises.
Regards
L/M/E FF
Dec 15, 2005, 3:34 am
#9
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And bad new for PER as well
[Quote from another site]
The UK-Australia bilateral is capped at 28pw.
If QF indeed took over the BA service, it would need the 3pw currently operated out of PER.
[end quote]
Why do I wonder if PER will become an all JQ-International airport for QF?
Happy wandering
WF
The UK-Australia bilateral is capped at 28pw.
If QF indeed took over the BA service, it would need the 3pw currently operated out of PER.
[end quote]
Why do I wonder if PER will become an all JQ-International airport for QF?
Happy wandering
WF
Dec 15, 2005, 4:21 am
#10
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Originally Posted by QF 777-300ER
So MEL now gets QF29? Do we get QF31 aswell? Because that only leave syd with QF1 and QF319/301 (BA).
SYD
QF1/2 SYD-BKK-LHR DAILY
QF 31/32 SYD-SIN-LHR DAILY
BA 9/10 LHR-BKK-SYD DAILY
BA 15/16 LHR-SIN-SYD DAILY
MEL
QF9/10 MEL-SIN-LHR DAILY
QF29/30 MEL-HKG-LHR DAILY
Dec 15, 2005, 4:25 am
#11
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The only reason BA serves SYD and MEL is because of the JSA. Without that, BA would not serve Australia. As with all other European airlines (except Lauda/Austrian) it doesn't make economic sense because of the distance. As I pointed out on the BA board, Business fares ex-Lon are the same for SYD as JFK or India/China but the aircraft is in use 2-3 times longer. Not great utilisation of your precious and expensive aircraft.
Former CEO Rod Eddington also pointed out at the last AGM that MEL was underperforming (there's a rumour that BA only continued flying there because his mother lived there)!! He also mentioned that NRT was underperforming, but that's a different story.
Now, I think this shows why the JSA is vital to both BA and QF. The Asian and Middle Eastern carriers have a HUGE advantage on the Kangaroo route because of being in the middle and being able to sell all manner of connections through their hubs. The JSA allows BA/QF to compete with this with SIN as a mid-point hub (certainly for London-Australia). Without the JSA both BA and QF are completely lost on the Kangaroo routes I'm afraid, so let's hope it continues.
Former CEO Rod Eddington also pointed out at the last AGM that MEL was underperforming (there's a rumour that BA only continued flying there because his mother lived there)!! He also mentioned that NRT was underperforming, but that's a different story.
Now, I think this shows why the JSA is vital to both BA and QF. The Asian and Middle Eastern carriers have a HUGE advantage on the Kangaroo route because of being in the middle and being able to sell all manner of connections through their hubs. The JSA allows BA/QF to compete with this with SIN as a mid-point hub (certainly for London-Australia). Without the JSA both BA and QF are completely lost on the Kangaroo routes I'm afraid, so let's hope it continues.
Dec 15, 2005, 8:26 am
#12
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All very good points PhilH, very interesting.
I do think though that the 'symbolic' points mentioned in a previous post is an important reason why BA will continue to service SYD, and therefore Oz - BA no longer bill themselves as "the world's fave airline" but the reality and public profile of them being a truly global carrier is still a big thing for them. Serving at least one port in Oz, espec. considering the British obsession with all things Aussie (and I speak as a Pom), is important to them for this purpose I think.
And, just a question for you all on the JSA - do the terms of the JSA allow BA to cut all its services to Oz ? (I have no idea, which is why I ask, just guessing that both carriers would be expected to 'spread the load' between them as such. Or do QF make more money by running more of the services, and thus they actually welcome the move ?)
I do think though that the 'symbolic' points mentioned in a previous post is an important reason why BA will continue to service SYD, and therefore Oz - BA no longer bill themselves as "the world's fave airline" but the reality and public profile of them being a truly global carrier is still a big thing for them. Serving at least one port in Oz, espec. considering the British obsession with all things Aussie (and I speak as a Pom), is important to them for this purpose I think.
And, just a question for you all on the JSA - do the terms of the JSA allow BA to cut all its services to Oz ? (I have no idea, which is why I ask, just guessing that both carriers would be expected to 'spread the load' between them as such. Or do QF make more money by running more of the services, and thus they actually welcome the move ?)
Dec 15, 2005, 10:01 am
#14
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Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
All very good points PhilH, very interesting.
I do think though that the 'symbolic' points mentioned in a previous post is an important reason why BA will continue to service SYD, and therefore Oz
I do think though that the 'symbolic' points mentioned in a previous post is an important reason why BA will continue to service SYD, and therefore Oz
And, just a question for you all on the JSA - do the terms of the JSA allow BA to cut all its services to Oz ? (I have no idea, which is why I ask, just guessing that both carriers would be expected to 'spread the load' between them as such. Or do QF make more money by running more of the services, and thus they actually welcome the move ?)
Dec 15, 2005, 1:11 pm
#15
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Originally Posted by kiwiandrew
if BA dropped SYD as well they would lose their claim to be one of the few airlines serving all six inhabited continents ( MH & SA are the only other two that I can think of off the top of my head ) - not a dollars and cents argument admittedly - but definitely a prestige argument
.
.