Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Cathay Pacific | Cathay
Reload this Page >

Are CX lounges the PP lounges of OneWorld?

Are CX lounges the PP lounges of OneWorld?

Old May 28, 2017, 6:50 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 83
Are CX lounges the PP lounges of OneWorld?

As someone who flies CX a lot regionally and less often but still not infrequently internationally I have come to the conclusion that CX cares more about making $30 (or whatever it is that those airlines pay CX) from other OneWorld passengers than providing a decent experience to its own frequent flyers as far as its lounges are concerned.

Similar to lounges which accept payment from PP to admit guests, CX seems to be no better now. In fact, some PP lounges (Oman Air in BKK or Air China First Class lounge in PEK) are better than the CX lounges as they are significantly less crowded.

And before the CX apologists start let me say that with 5+ lounges at HKIA, there is no reason why CX couldn't have a Diamond only lounge serving better champagne and food and without the hordes from AA etc. SQ manages to do it in Singapore and puts Star Alliance Golds into an inferior lounge.

Last edited by samuelo; May 28, 2017 at 8:41 am
samuelo is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 8:17 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,341
The KF Gold lounge is not just for *A Gold in economy, but for SQ elites in Y. Given what must be the high number of CX elites in HKG, I would imagine a similar scheme for CX (where Silvers and Golds would only have J/F access if flying in those cabins) might well reduce crowding even more than removing AA EXPs or other OWEs in Y. Is that what you had in mind when comparing to SQ?

Last edited by eponymous_coward; May 28, 2017 at 9:46 am
eponymous_coward is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 8:40 am
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 83
For my faults/stupidity, I am still loyal to CX Marco Polo. As someone who pays for premium travel on CX I guess it's asking too much to have a lounge that's not overcrowded?

At the end of the day, given the unattrctiveness of the Marco Polo Club, CX elites are at least paying $ to CX and hardly going to be credit for regular travel on other airlines. The least they deserve is lounge access. However, a AA EXP or Enrich Gold Member is not contributing much to CX apart from the $30 fee. Given how cr*ppy the lounges are for AA or MH is a CX MPC member ever going to use their lounges if given any choice? Of course not. So it's just one way traffic from AA etc (excl. QF and maybe BA) to CX lounges. Let CX put them all in a special Oneworld elite lounge which is still probably better than anything they are used to with their own carriers.

PS - you're right on SQ KF Gold Lounge and should have made clear it's the concept of separation I was trying to get at and not asking for wholesale copy and paste

PPS - Rabble bad choice of words. Changed. I don't think I'm better than anyone but as a CX D I do think I deserve to be treated better than other OWE by CX.
samuelo is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 8:40 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Racine, WI/VCE
Programs: AA EXP, MR LT PPE, Arise Mucci des Hommes de Fer
Posts: 1,047
Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
"derogatory: ordinary people, especially when regarded as socially inferior or uncouth."

You seem like a nice person. Obviously all these years of flying CX extensively has made you into a person of superior character, wisdom, and breeding. Thank you for sharing your opinions among us lesser beings who fly lesser airlines. We're hardly worthy to be breathing the same oxygen as you.

PS: the KF Gold lounge is not just for *A Gold in economy, but for SQ elites in Y. Given what must be the high number of CX elites in HKG, I would imagine a similar scheme for CX (where Silvers and Golds would only have J/F access if flying in those cabins) might well reduce crowding even more than removing AA EXPs or other OWEs in Y. Is that what you had in mind when comparing to SQ?
Brilliant, well thought out response EC! Apparently this DYKWIA is not getting enough love from CX. Pitty
TheAAdmiral is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 9:09 am
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,341
Originally Posted by samuelo
For my faults/stupidity, I am still loyal to CX Marco Polo. As someone who pays for premium travel on CX I guess it's asking too much to have a lounge that's not overcrowded?

At the end of the day, given the unattrctiveness of the Marco Polo Club, CX elites are at least paying $ to CX and hardly going to be credit for regular travel on other airlines. The least they deserve is lounge access. However, a AA EXP or Enrich Gold Member is not contributing much to CX apart from the $30 fee. Given how cr*ppy the lounges are for AA or MH is a CX MPC member ever going to use their lounges if given any choice? Of course not. So it's just one way traffic from AA etc (excl. QF and maybe BA) to CX lounges. Let CX put them all in a special Oneworld elite lounge which is still probably better than anything they are used to with their own carriers.

PS - you're right on SQ KF Gold Lounge and should have made clear it's the concept of separation I was trying to get at and not asking for wholesale copy and paste

PPS - Rabble bad choice of words. Changed. I don't think I'm better than anyone but as a CX D I do think I deserve to be treated better than other OWE by CX.
An AA EXP who is flying on paid CX Y/J/F is contributing to CX for their distinct lounge visit on their ticket as much as a CX Diamond flying in Y/J/F, no?

AA and MH have a very small number of flights out of HKG compared to CX (BA/JL as well, QF has their own lounges), so you would have to think the number of OWE/OWS pax in Y that are not CX elites is fairly small. I suggest the real way to reduce J lounge crowding would be eliminating J lounge access when not in the J cabin, and having a separate Y lounge for elites, similar to what SQ does.

Alternately, you could do what LH does and have J lounges, *A Lounges which handle Senators, *A Golds and *A FC pax outside of LH Group, and F lounges that are LH Group HON and F only. It's a bit curious to give a paid longhaul no status LH/LX J pax a worse lounge than a *A Gold in Y, but it does keep the F lounges very serene. Both the J and *A Gold lounges are pretty jammed though.

I suspect that a lounge access policy where the home airline's elites get into a lounge regardless of cabin of travel is MORE likely to jam a lounge than guest airline elites or guest airline premium pax. I mean, really, CX is going to have the most elites in HKG, no? So the biggest factors jamming lounges is going to be:

-CX OWS/OWE getting into a lounge based on status, not cabin of travel
-CX regional J getting access to a lounge (imagine if there were designated longhaul lounges and shorthaul lounges, or if CX cut back lounge access for shorthaul to something similar to what the USA airlines do; no access unless it's a long transborder flight outside of North America.)

AA has two flights a day out of HKG... that means their F pax are adding at most a whopping 16 people in Wing/Pier F each day. Yeah, they're adding some EXPs in AA J/Y as well, but you fix that if you have a "cabin of service" lounge policy.

Also, given QR's lounge access rules and BA Concorde Room I suppose you could do a "CX F only and high spend Diamond" lounge similar to SQ's The Private Room.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; May 28, 2017 at 10:06 am
eponymous_coward is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 12:36 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 1A
Programs: Elite Diamond Purple Dot Gold Silver Titanium for life
Posts: 1,821
Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
An AA EXP who is flying on paid CX Y/J/F is contributing to CX for their distinct lounge visit on their ticket as much as a CX Diamond flying in Y/J/F, no?

AA and MH have a very small number of flights out of HKG compared to CX (BA/JL as well, QF has their own lounges), so you would have to think the number of OWE/OWS pax in Y that are not CX elites is fairly small. I suggest the real way to reduce J lounge crowding would be eliminating J lounge access when not in the J cabin, and having a separate Y lounge for elites, similar to what SQ does.
I might suggest any perceived HKG overcrowding is due to everyone and their dog having free lounge through the CX Amex.

In HKG, the CX lounge revenue business is huge. This is one reason why Qantas improved their lounge a couple years ago despite only a few daily flights. It's to prevent anyone flying Qantas preferring to visit CX lounges where QF would incur a fee.

Pax can be valuable to an airline in a number of ways, either through paid J/F, Bank miles transfers/co-brands etc. There is no right or wrong way where the airline should be actively reverse-discriminating against any form of high-value pax.

I mean, think about it. If lounges are crowded. That is a good problem for the lounge owner.

HKG has no shortage of lounge options, either. Sure beats the heck out of most other airports around the world.
d00t is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 12:44 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 1A
Programs: Elite Diamond Purple Dot Gold Silver Titanium for life
Posts: 1,821
Originally Posted by samuelo
For my faults/stupidity, I am still loyal to CX Marco Polo. As someone who pays for premium travel on CX I guess it's asking too much to have a lounge that's not overcrowded?

At the end of the day, given the unattrctiveness of the Marco Polo Club, CX elites are at least paying $ to CX and hardly going to be credit for regular travel on other airlines. The least they deserve is lounge access. However, a AA EXP or Enrich Gold Member is not contributing much to CX apart from the $30 fee. Given how cr*ppy the lounges are for AA or MH is a CX MPC member ever going to use their lounges if given any choice? Of course not. So it's just one way traffic from AA etc (excl. QF and maybe BA) to CX lounges. Let CX put them all in a special Oneworld elite lounge which is still probably better than anything they are used to with their own carriers.

PS - you're right on SQ KF Gold Lounge and should have made clear it's the concept of separation I was trying to get at and not asking for wholesale copy and paste

PPS - Rabble bad choice of words. Changed. I don't think I'm better than anyone but as a CX D I do think I deserve to be treated better than other OWE by CX.
Given how shocking Marco Polo is for anyone in econ/prem econ and that two major global airlines are actively poaching CX customers - I'd say you have better chance of being treated better by another loyalty program.

AA wants your business and recently had the status match targeting CX Gold/Diamonds.
MH can be 50% cheaper than CX to any destination. Same lounges, easier status earning, half the cost.
Almost every mainland carrier is lower cost than CX.

The only benefit you have as a DM over any other OWE is your priority in the upgrade order. If you're not receiving regular free upgrades, it might be time to consider who cares most about your patronage.
d00t is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 1:23 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: CX
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by samuelo
And before the CX apologists start let me say that with 5+ lounges at HKIA, there is no reason why CX couldn't have a Diamond only lounge serving better champagne and food and without the hordes from AA etc. SQ manages to do it in Singapore and puts Star Alliance Golds into an inferior lounge.
Here we go with this debate again...
nolounge is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 1:26 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,341
Originally Posted by d00t
In HKG, the CX lounge revenue business is huge. This is one reason why Qantas improved their lounge a couple years ago despite only a few daily flights. It's to prevent anyone flying Qantas preferring to visit CX lounges where QF would incur a fee.
With only 2x daily flights, it's unlikely that AA generates enough traffic where that approach makes sense.


Originally Posted by d00t
Pax can be valuable to an airline in a number of ways, either through paid J/F, Bank miles transfers/co-brands etc. There is no right or wrong way where the airline should be actively reverse-discriminating against any form of high-value pax.

I mean, think about it. If lounges are crowded. That is a good problem for the lounge owner.

HKG has no shortage of lounge options, either. Sure beats the heck out of most other airports around the world.
I tend to agree and was more engaging OP as a thought exercise of "well, this is how CX could do it..."

If anything, at a time where CX is trying to cut expenses to try to make a profit, being paid straight up for lounge access instead of having to fold it into the cost of a ticket or elite program as an indirect cost makes the cost/benefit straightforward. It could possibly save CX more money and possibly reduce crowding were they to put THEIR elites in Y into an SQ-style dumbed down lounge. Be careful what you ask for...
eponymous_coward is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 2:44 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
Originally Posted by samuelo
...from other OneWorld passengers than providing a decent experience to its own frequent flyers as far as its lounges are concerned.
FWIW - this is the downside being in an alliance.

Originally Posted by samuelo
...there is no reason why CX couldn't have a Diamond only lounge serving better champagne and food and without the hordes from AA etc.
CX could, like how BR does it. However, I am puzzled how this relates to you.

Originally Posted by samuelo
SQ manages to do it in Singapore and puts Star Alliance Golds into an inferior lounge.
But not everywhere else. SQ SKL HKG is a *G lounge, which all *G are welcome.
garykung is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 3:08 pm
  #11  
mxr
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: HKG, TXL
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 566
Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
With only 2x daily flights, it's unlikely that AA generates enough traffic where that approach makes sense.
Honestly with the two daily departures AA has going from the 40-60 gates (as far as I know, at least one of them always?) which are both in the afternoon, it really does feel to me like during those hours you get a good amount of AA pax in the Pier F.

There are definitely way more EXP's on any given AA HKG-DFW/LAX flight than there are DM's on any long haul CX flight.
I'm taking this from my times flying HKG-EWR/SFO on UA a few years ago as a 1K and there were definitely a lot of 1Ks on board those flights!
So a typical Pier F afternoon at ~2pm will have a very heavy number of AA pax in it.
Unless there is a PVG/SIN flight leaving for CX at those 40-60 gates, its highly likely that there will only be 1-2 DM's (+guests) from each flight departing from those gates.

Maybe CX should cut down on the guest allowance? Is it possible that a lot of people make use of those +2 guests?

I quite like LH's concept of having your LH/LX F & HON only lounge as you can somewhat compare CX-DM to LH-HON in terms how how hard it is to get there (especially for first timers).
mxr is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 3:58 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,341
Originally Posted by mxr
Honestly with the two daily departures AA has going from the 40-60 gates (as far as I know, at least one of them always?) which are both in the afternoon, it really does feel to me like during those hours you get a good amount of AA pax in the Pier F.

There are definitely way more EXP's on any given AA HKG-DFW/LAX flight than there are DM's on any long haul CX flight.
I'm taking this from my times flying HKG-EWR/SFO on UA a few years ago as a 1K and there were definitely a lot of 1Ks on board those flights!
So a typical Pier F afternoon at ~2pm will have a very heavy number of AA pax in it.
Unless there is a PVG/SIN flight leaving for CX at those 40-60 gates, its highly likely that there will only be 1-2 DM's (+guests) from each flight departing from those gates.
I was more commenting on AA running their own lounge at HKG ala QF. I suspect it works out for AA and CX to use the Pier F and J.

Originally Posted by mxr
I quite like LH's concept of having your LH/LX F & HON only lounge as you can somewhat compare CX-DM to LH-HON in terms how how hard it is to get there (especially for first timers).
There would have to be an F lounge set up then for AA and other OW F pax (I guess BA since QF has their own). For LH they have SEN lounges as the *A G lounges AND OAL F lounges for non-LH group pax, which are superior to the J lounges. BA has Galleries F to go along with the Concorde Lounge.

So CX would be leasing more space from HKG to stash AA/BA F passengers (and OWEs) and getting no extra money out of the deal. I imagine that is a hard sell at a time when you are losing money...

Also, if part of what makes Pier F pencil out is a bunch of OWE or OW F pax that CX gets paid for...

Last edited by eponymous_coward; May 28, 2017 at 4:08 pm
eponymous_coward is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 4:31 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
This whole topic seems ridiculous.

There are plenty of lounges to choose from at HKG, including two First lounges if you are a DM. I've never seen the Pier J get uncomfortably crowded, I'm sure Pier F almost never does.

I use Oneworld lounges at outports all the time, so I can hardly complain about other OWEs doing the same in HKG.

It's hard to begrudge CX doing anything that makes it an easy profit right now, especially given the amount they've invested in redeveloping lounges all over the world.

Of all the aspects of CX's operations, the lounges are the very last thing I'd be changing right now.
lionelhutz is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 7:07 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
The only time I saw HKG lounges full were during a major flight disruption causes by black rain warning and even in the Wing J (which can get crowded) I was still able to find a seat. The only crowded lounge I know of is the CX lounge in BKK, when there were literally no seats left after 2 CX flights got delayed.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Old May 28, 2017, 9:13 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
All CX needs to do is stick to Oneworld rules and remove CX Silver lounge access. The overcrowding problem will instantly be solved.

It would be nice to have an F only lounge too where only F passengers and maybe DM+ have access.
1010101 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.