photopoet

Longtime lurker, first post---I'm not a frequent flyer, but I do fly domestic about 4-5 times a year. I've opted out of the scans ever since they were implemented, for safety reasons firstly but also on principle.

We flew to Orlando (MCO) last month, first time at that airport and we couldn't believe how backed up TSA was. We were the only two opt-outs, and they made a big deal about it. Indeed, during the whole time there we saw nobody else opting out---just lots of sheep going through the scanners. But thinking about it, I realized that I rarely see anyone else opting out anymore.

So I wanted to ask the experts here: is it generally considered safe now to go through the scanners? Does anyone opt out anymore?

T-the-B

I usually get pre-check so no need to opt-out. However; when I don't get pre-check I do opt out. I usually see plenty of people getting pat-downs but whether they are opt-outs or WBI false-positives I can't say.

Boggie Dog

The scanners currently in use use millimeter wave technology and are considered safe. The addition of Automatic Target Recognition, gumby image, helped to resolve the privacy issues.

guflyer

I still don't know whether to trust the safety of body scanners.

http://archive.is/IKJSs#selection-1393.50-1393.129

This article states that MMW penetrates one's skin and describes the potential dangers of the MMW scanners.

Boggie Dog

Radiogirl gave some pretty convincing postings that convinced me that we have little reason to be concerned. My concerns were with backscatter WBI and the clear privacy violations the non-ATR machines presented.

TWA884

There are several older threads discussing the safety of millimeter wave scanners.

Here are a couple:

Schmurrr

I opted out at MCO twice this year. They didn't make a big deal out of it, though I agree that I see fewer people opting out nowadays.

FliesWay2Much

I suspect the reason is that most people who used to opt out signed up for ExtortionCheck. The remaining few are people like me who refused to be extorted.

jackonferry

I opt out whenever I don't get pre-check. I do this for two reasons. First, the scanner almost always generates a false positive that has to be resolved with a patdown. Second, as silly as it may seem, I do not like to adopt the "surrender" posture in the scanners. So, I take the frisking.

JakiChan

MMW always alarms on my left thigh. Jokes about "Don't be jealous, you can have quads like this if you don't skip leg day" are usually made.

cbn42

The reason opt-outs have dropped to almost zero is because the TSA has exempted from the scanners the groups that are most likely to complain: airline personnel and frequent fliers. Those people can get pre-check and therefore don't need to opt out anymore.

With regard to safety, it depends what you mean by safe. Are you going to drop dead if you walk through a scanner? Of course not. But is there a long term risk? Who knows. It's like asking if junk food is safe. Millions of people eat it and get by just fine. But that doesn't mean it's "safe". There have been cases when chemicals generally deemed safe were found to be hazardous decades after entering use.

I still opt out whenever I am "randomly" pulled out of the pre-check line and sent through normal security. I don't see too many people doing it anymore, but the staff can handle it without any problem.

redtigeriii

Unfortunately having pre-check doesn't mean you are guaranteed to not have to opt out from going through a scanner, since you could be randomly selected for MMW with the beep (unless this has changed recently). Is there any official policy about the random alarming in the pre check lines? It seems different from airport to airport. I went through one recently where the pre-check line only had a wtmd, with no scanner nearby and a wall seperating it from the main line, and I didn't see anyone trigger the beep. Then other airports in the past it seems like 25% or more of people trigger it.

photopoet

Thanks, everyone, for all the info -- especially guflyer and TWA884 for the links. I was wondering if it was "safe" yet, and this tells me no, gotta stick with the opt-out.

What I noticed is that sometimes they make my wife and I stand right up against the x-ray scanners that are used for carryons, with a look in their eye that makes me nearly certain it's on purpose, and it seems like when they do that they take their good old time, and for the ten minutes or so the only thing they do is yell at us to stand right up against the machine ... which we don't do, but being put in that position makes us understandably angry. This has happened twice. Not like they let us pull out a dosimeter or anything.

And whenever we fly, we're the only ones getting the frisk. We do it right in front of everyone, of course, and meanwhile there's the rest of the world, just going right through the machine and then putting their shoes on and doing what they're told to.

I guess it's just that it's become a bit wearying. We have another trip coming up soon and I hate dealing with TSA more than anything, especially since I also carry film which I ask for a hand check. They really look at us. At MCO, when the TSA guy heard we wanted a hand check AND a pat down, he said to his partner "I can't believe this. I'm gonna have to go get a manager to see *this* one." Last time we were in LAX, the agent was visibly repulsed having to do the job -- like the only time he'd done it before was during his first week of training. Then he had the nerve to complain about the number of bins I had: "You've got all those? That isn't even allowed!"

I'm really just sick of it and sometimes feel like the last man standing in this protest. To be honest, if I could afford pre-check, I'd probably pay it just to avoid the stupid hassle. There isn't much money in literature and books these days so I'm just grateful I'm able to fly as much as I do.

cbn42

Remember that you have the right to maintain visual contact with your possessions at all times. If your bags have gone through, you can demand to be permitted to stand in a location where you can see them. A firm "I can't see my bags from here" should get them to let you stand in a better location.

photopoet

We gave them a lot of that at MCO last month. We couldn't see our bags and I couldn't see my film and there was a TON of people on all sides. There were 4 different TSA agents in the area, and we protested about this to all of them. One woman behind the cordon finally in a very unconcerned voice said "There's cameras everywhere, nobody's gonna steal your bags."

I would've taken her picture and posted it here but at that point I'd already surrendered my phone.