USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

Subscribe
Quote: It sounds like the terminals weren't Amex chip enabled.
Exactly, Joshwex it was the other way around. It appears Amex doesn't support chip transactions in Ireland, period. I will try to find out more.
Quote: Exactly, Joshwex it was the other way around. It appears Amex doesn't support chip transactions in Ireland, period. I will try to find out more.
It wouldn't surprise me. Most of the time my amex ends being swiped in Europe. (Apart from France and Spain)
Here's the answer I finally got from USAA and I don't think a lot of people here are going to like it.

As of 25 April (that was the date mentioned), a business decision was made to change cvm priority to chip and signature on their world mastercard because...well there is no real because other than it was a business decision. The person, very polite I must say and I appreciate her efforts, said it had to do with the fact that in the USA (just as I supposed), chip and signature will be the predominant verification method and that mastercard wants it that way. She had no answer as to why my updated pin did not work in the kiosk at CDG.

I think we can all agree at this point that our transition to emv, at least for the time being in the USA, will be to chip and signature. At this point, I don't really think any bank will be bucking the trend. Other than UNFCU, there will be no (well DC but will they ever take new applications?) true chip and pin card in the USA. The questions remain just how much inconvenience might be caused at pos terminals where merchants are adamant they need a pin or at unpersonneled kiosks.

Over and out.
Quote: Here's the answer I finally got from USAA and I don't think a lot of people here are going to like it.

As of 25 April (that was the date mentioned), a business decision was made to change cvm priority to chip and signature on their world mastercard because...well there is no real because other than it was a business decision. The person, very polite I must say and I appreciate her efforts, said it had to do with the fact that in the USA (just as I supposed), chip and signature will be the predominant verification method and that mastercard wants it that way. She had no answer as to why my updated pin did not work in the kiosk at CDG.

I think we can all agree at this point that our transition to emv, at least for the time being in the USA, will be to chip and signature. At this point, I don't really think any bank will be bucking the trend. Other than UNFCU, there will be no (well DC but will they ever take new applications?) true chip and pin card in the USA. The questions remain just how much inconvenience might be caused at pos terminals where merchants are adamant they need a pin or at unpersonneled kiosks.

Over and out.
I am really not surprised. Maybe BMO Harris will issue true C&P cards since they issue Diner's Club, and are owned by a Canadian bank, but I doubt it. HSBC US maybe as well?
Quote: Here's the answer I finally got from USAA and I don't think a lot of people here are going to like it.

As of 25 April (that was the date mentioned), a business decision was made to change cvm priority to chip and signature on their world mastercard because...well there is no real because other than it was a business decision. The person, very polite I must say and I appreciate her efforts, said it had to do with the fact that in the USA (just as I supposed), chip and signature will be the predominant verification method and that mastercard wants it that way. She had no answer as to why my updated pin did not work in the kiosk at CDG.

I think we can all agree at this point that our transition to emv, at least for the time being in the USA, will be to chip and signature. At this point, I don't really think any bank will be bucking the trend. Other than UNFCU, there will be no (well DC but will they ever take new applications?) true chip and pin card in the USA. The questions remain just how much inconvenience might be caused at pos terminals where merchants are adamant they need a pin or at unpersonneled kiosks.

Over and out.
PIN may eventually come, it's just that having to learn two things at once is a pain (plus as mentioned above, the "business decision" is that there's not enough lost/stolen card fraud to justify it). Besides, BoA wouldn't have bothered with online PIN at any priority if PIN was never an option on their roadmap.

Like when I was showing the yogurt shop owner/cashier how to run an EMV card. I can imagine how much more of a learning curve it would have been for her had my CSP had PIN as first priority. I didn't mention it earlier, but she accidentally voided the transaction by pushing "no" to the signature valid prompt. There's going to be a lot more things like that happening at other vendors for the initial EMV rollout, guaranteed.
I also think we'll eventually get to chip-and-PIN, but it will be a few years. Of course, this will leave those of us who travel to places that use offline PIN verification without a card that will work. Merchants who refuse signature transactions won't get my business, and if it's a restaurant or something they will quickly find they will need to allow a signature transaction if they want to get paid.
Quote: I also think we'll eventually get to chip-and-PIN, but it will be a few years. Of course, this will leave those of us who travel to places that use offline PIN verification without a card that will work. Merchants who refuse signature transactions won't get my business, and if it's a restaurant or something they will quickly find they will need to allow a signature transaction if they want to get paid.
Fortunately there are still cards that have PIN at a lower priority, so the main issue will be mostly with merchants who will (possibly illegally) refuse a signature transaction. It would be far more of a problem if US card issuers didn't have PIN on the CVM list at all.
Quote: I am really not surprised. Maybe BMO Harris will issue true C&P cards since they issue Diner's Club, and are owned by a Canadian bank, but I doubt it. HSBC US maybe as well?
If what's been going on is any sort of indication, the fact that a bank is a US subsidiary of a major international bank offering chip and pin cards is meaningless. Barclay's is the perfect example. Barclaycard in the UK is 100% chip and pin (well maybe a few exceptions for handicapped carfdholders) but they've made it quite clear that for their US subsidiary, chip and signature with chip and pin capabilities is the way they put it.
Quote: If what's been going on is any sort of indication, the fact that a bank is a US subsidiary of a major international bank offering chip and pin cards is meaningless. Barclay's is the perfect example. Barclaycard in the UK is 100% chip and pin (well maybe a few exceptions for handicapped carfdholders) but they've made it quite clear that for their US subsidiary, chip and signature with chip and pin capabilities is the way they put it.
Isn't C&P in most countries a government mandate anyway?
Quote: Here's the answer I finally got from USAA and I don't think a lot of people here are going to like it.
Right about that last part.

I hope that they left offline PIN as the first PIN CVM for non-ATM use. At least that way, the kiosks should work OK, and we'll just be left to deal with signature-averse merchants.

Thanks for the update.
I know UK merchants are required to accept signature transactions by law, but for other countries, why can't merchants simply disable signature functionality in their terminals if they're averse? That way it'll still ask for a PIN if a card that has a PIN is used. Or are merchants in other countries restricted from doing so due to their merchant agreements?
Quote: I know UK merchants are required to accept signature transactions by law, but for other countries, why can't merchants simply disable signature functionality in their terminals if they're averse? That way it'll still ask for a PIN if a card that has a PIN is used. Or are merchants in other countries restricted from doing so due to their merchant agreements?
This would violate the merchant agreement unless local law prohibited signature transactions. I don't know of anywhere this is the case because Visa/MC/AmEx would throw a fit. There are plenty of countries that are still chip and signature.
Quote: (well DC but will they ever take new applications?)
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't think they will. If DC really wanted to accept new applications, they'd have found a way to do it by now.
Quote: I didn't mention it earlier, but she accidentally voided the transaction by pushing "no" to the signature valid prompt.
This is the more down-to-earth problems of EMV. When you introduce something new that they haven't been given training on, it causes confusion.

The cashier at the yogurt shop could've been a cashier at GAP previously. How is she supposed to know what to do if not given any training?

Training employees is a must in EMV transition. Some will take training seriously like Walmart. Others will be lazy and will not provide any training and see it like any other cost they can skimp out on.
Quote: Here's the answer I finally got from USAA and I don't think a lot of people here are going to like it.

As of 25 April (that was the date mentioned), a business decision was made to change cvm priority to chip and signature on their world mastercard because...well there is no real because other than it was a business decision. The person, very polite I must say and I appreciate her efforts, said it had to do with the fact that in the USA (just as I supposed), chip and signature will be the predominant verification method and that mastercard wants it that way. She had no answer as to why my updated pin did not work in the kiosk at CDG.

I think we can all agree at this point that our transition to emv, at least for the time being in the USA, will be to chip and signature. At this point, I don't really think any bank will be bucking the trend. Other than UNFCU, there will be no (well DC but will they ever take new applications?) true chip and pin card in the USA. The questions remain just how much inconvenience might be caused at pos terminals where merchants are adamant they need a pin or at unpersonneled kiosks.

Over and out.
Actually MasterCard is pushing Chip and PIN but they cannot force banks that way. Visa on the other hand is pushing Chip and signature. But it is the bank's choice