US/Canadian Border Crossing: "We Shall Treat No One With Respect..."
Nov 3, 2008, 12:30 pm
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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US/Canadian Border Crossing: "We Shall Treat No One With Respect..."
*Not sure if there's a parent thread for subjects such as these, but if there is MODs please feel free to merge*
Just got home from a three week tour (I am a musician if my handle didn't already make that clear) of the Eastern US along with a couple Midwestern shows and one in Toronto. We crossed the Canadian border from Buffalo, NY on our way to the Toronto show. This was quite possibly the most painless border crossing I have ever experienced. Although, I must admit that the officer who approached our bus was a huge fan and actually had been waiting on us to cross with hopes of meeting our "boss". So...I guess that had a lot to do with our <10 minute crossing which included a quick check of all passports while we all sat comfortably on the bus, and no officers ever set foot onboard.
The return crossing was a VERY different story...
We left Toronto early in the wee hours and crossed back into the US somewhere near Detroit I believe (I'm not real familiar with the various entry/exit spots nor do I know which highway we were on). We arrived sometime around 6am...all eight of us sleeping soundly in our bunks. Apparently our bus driver made a very innocent mistake by misreading a poorly lit sign and took us into the wrong lane. The first responding officer was a complete jackass to our driver, continually making snide remarks and asking rhetorical, condescending questions ( i.e. "How come you didn't see the sign when everyone else does?").
Everyone woke up and got dressed as quickly as possible. We know the routine...we'll all have to get off the bus and go inside. Our tour manager asked us all to wait just outside the bus so we could enter as a group; normal routine. Again, officer "JA" didn't like this and was getting impatient with us. It was cold...low 30's and we were all in PJ's essentially so we didn't want to stand there any longer than necessary.
Eventually we all make it off save for our "boss" who was the last one to be woken and therefor took longer to get dressed. Officer "JA" sees that the head count is one short from what the driver originally told him and again lashes out at him for the apparent inconsistency. "How do you not know how many people are on your bus?" "Are you intentionally lying to me?" Then our boss rolls off the bus and the agent quickly shuts his mouth as he sees all nine (8 + driver) of us present.
We proceed inside and through the first set of glass doors where there is a desk with two officers, and they direct us inside another set of doors where we will be helped. There are eight total computer stations and only four seem to manned. However there is only one other person waiting so we assume this will be quick. One of the computer officers tells us to sit tight off to the side and they will be with us shortly. After about five minutes one of the two officers from the vestibule comes inside and asks us to "do us a favor and keep your hands out of your pockets". Give me a f*****g break!!! Its freezing cold outside, we're all still warming up. This isn't a traffic stop by the side of a dimly lit road. We're not a bunch of long haired, tattooed bohemoths. We're US citizens returning home from our jobs, but of course we're the enemy...guilty until proven innocent. I felt like saying "I'll take my hands out of my pockets if you'll take your head out of your a**", but I decided against it.
After fifteen minutes someone directs us up to the desk to turn in our passports, but not before another officer came up to us and snidely asked us why we were standing off to the side. "You'll never get helped if you don't stand in line". We told him that we'd been instructed to stand there since we were a group. He shrugged and walked off.
Radios crackled..."dog is on the bus". Blah blah. We don't do drugs, so have fun with that search.
All the while three crooked pictures of "W", Skeletor and Rummy sneered at us from across the room. If only I could get away with a few well aimed spitballs.
Then I noticed the "U.S. Customs Mission Statement" hanging on the wall. I don't recall all of the text and I can't find it online, but I remember it mentioned something about "treating all persons with respect and courtesy, regardless of nationality". It made me chuckle out loud. Seriously? Wow...someone has a good sense of humor.
We finally were back on our way after a total of about 40 minutes. Our bunks had been tossed. Some other things were obviously moved about. I know, I know. "You could've had drugs or weapons or bombs or terrywrists".
But we didn't. We were US citizens returning to our homes where we pay taxes and are "normal" members of society. But at least for me, I left the border feeling guilty, as if I'd done something wrong. I felt like a criminal for those 30-40 minutes. There was never a "benefit of doubt" given to us.
Maybe it because our driver picked the wrong lane on the wrong morning and got the bad shift. I doubt it.
Just got home from a three week tour (I am a musician if my handle didn't already make that clear) of the Eastern US along with a couple Midwestern shows and one in Toronto. We crossed the Canadian border from Buffalo, NY on our way to the Toronto show. This was quite possibly the most painless border crossing I have ever experienced. Although, I must admit that the officer who approached our bus was a huge fan and actually had been waiting on us to cross with hopes of meeting our "boss". So...I guess that had a lot to do with our <10 minute crossing which included a quick check of all passports while we all sat comfortably on the bus, and no officers ever set foot onboard.
The return crossing was a VERY different story...
We left Toronto early in the wee hours and crossed back into the US somewhere near Detroit I believe (I'm not real familiar with the various entry/exit spots nor do I know which highway we were on). We arrived sometime around 6am...all eight of us sleeping soundly in our bunks. Apparently our bus driver made a very innocent mistake by misreading a poorly lit sign and took us into the wrong lane. The first responding officer was a complete jackass to our driver, continually making snide remarks and asking rhetorical, condescending questions ( i.e. "How come you didn't see the sign when everyone else does?").
Everyone woke up and got dressed as quickly as possible. We know the routine...we'll all have to get off the bus and go inside. Our tour manager asked us all to wait just outside the bus so we could enter as a group; normal routine. Again, officer "JA" didn't like this and was getting impatient with us. It was cold...low 30's and we were all in PJ's essentially so we didn't want to stand there any longer than necessary.
Eventually we all make it off save for our "boss" who was the last one to be woken and therefor took longer to get dressed. Officer "JA" sees that the head count is one short from what the driver originally told him and again lashes out at him for the apparent inconsistency. "How do you not know how many people are on your bus?" "Are you intentionally lying to me?" Then our boss rolls off the bus and the agent quickly shuts his mouth as he sees all nine (8 + driver) of us present.
We proceed inside and through the first set of glass doors where there is a desk with two officers, and they direct us inside another set of doors where we will be helped. There are eight total computer stations and only four seem to manned. However there is only one other person waiting so we assume this will be quick. One of the computer officers tells us to sit tight off to the side and they will be with us shortly. After about five minutes one of the two officers from the vestibule comes inside and asks us to "do us a favor and keep your hands out of your pockets". Give me a f*****g break!!! Its freezing cold outside, we're all still warming up. This isn't a traffic stop by the side of a dimly lit road. We're not a bunch of long haired, tattooed bohemoths. We're US citizens returning home from our jobs, but of course we're the enemy...guilty until proven innocent. I felt like saying "I'll take my hands out of my pockets if you'll take your head out of your a**", but I decided against it.
After fifteen minutes someone directs us up to the desk to turn in our passports, but not before another officer came up to us and snidely asked us why we were standing off to the side. "You'll never get helped if you don't stand in line". We told him that we'd been instructed to stand there since we were a group. He shrugged and walked off.
Radios crackled..."dog is on the bus". Blah blah. We don't do drugs, so have fun with that search.
All the while three crooked pictures of "W", Skeletor and Rummy sneered at us from across the room. If only I could get away with a few well aimed spitballs.
Then I noticed the "U.S. Customs Mission Statement" hanging on the wall. I don't recall all of the text and I can't find it online, but I remember it mentioned something about "treating all persons with respect and courtesy, regardless of nationality". It made me chuckle out loud. Seriously? Wow...someone has a good sense of humor.
We finally were back on our way after a total of about 40 minutes. Our bunks had been tossed. Some other things were obviously moved about. I know, I know. "You could've had drugs or weapons or bombs or terrywrists".
But we didn't. We were US citizens returning to our homes where we pay taxes and are "normal" members of society. But at least for me, I left the border feeling guilty, as if I'd done something wrong. I felt like a criminal for those 30-40 minutes. There was never a "benefit of doubt" given to us.
Maybe it because our driver picked the wrong lane on the wrong morning and got the bad shift. I doubt it.
Nov 3, 2008, 4:50 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ANC
Programs: AS MVPG 75K, UA 2P
Posts: 1,453
What a bunch of sad sacks.
They remind me of the Austrian border guards who jacked me up in the middle of winter back in '88 after I had just spent a couple of hours being hassled by communist thugs on the Czechoslovak side.
Alas, it will take more than a new (non-scummy) President and cabinet to readjust the attitudes of the border guards, etc.
They remind me of the Austrian border guards who jacked me up in the middle of winter back in '88 after I had just spent a couple of hours being hassled by communist thugs on the Czechoslovak side.
Alas, it will take more than a new (non-scummy) President and cabinet to readjust the attitudes of the border guards, etc.
Nov 3, 2008, 6:29 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: RDU, Delta GM/1MM, Hilton Diamond (for now), Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 3,443
I cross in Detroit from time to time and the US side of the border has the biggest jacka**es on the face of the planet. They make the harshest TSA person seem like a saint.
I gotta agree with you.. You feel like a total criminal crossing there.
I gotta agree with you.. You feel like a total criminal crossing there.
Nov 4, 2008, 5:04 am
#4
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*Not sure if there's a parent thread for subjects such as these, but if there is MODs please feel free to merge*
Just got home from a three week tour (I am a musician if my handle didn't already make that clear) of the Eastern US along with a couple Midwestern shows and one in Toronto. We crossed the Canadian border from Buffalo, NY on our way to the Toronto show. This was quite possibly the most painless border crossing I have ever experienced. Although, I must admit that the officer who approached our bus was a huge fan and actually had been waiting on us to cross with hopes of meeting our "boss". So...I guess that had a lot to do with our <10 minute crossing which included a quick check of all passports while we all sat comfortably on the bus, and no officers ever set foot onboard.
The return crossing was a VERY different story...
We left Toronto early in the wee hours and crossed back into the US somewhere near Detroit I believe (I'm not real familiar with the various entry/exit spots nor do I know which highway we were on). We arrived sometime around 6am...all eight of us sleeping soundly in our bunks. Apparently our bus driver made a very innocent mistake by misreading a poorly lit sign and took us into the wrong lane. The first responding officer was a complete jackass to our driver, continually making snide remarks and asking rhetorical, condescending questions ( i.e. "How come you didn't see the sign when everyone else does?").
Everyone woke up and got dressed as quickly as possible. We know the routine...we'll all have to get off the bus and go inside. Our tour manager asked us all to wait just outside the bus so we could enter as a group; normal routine. Again, officer "JA" didn't like this and was getting impatient with us. It was cold...low 30's and we were all in PJ's essentially so we didn't want to stand there any longer than necessary.
Eventually we all make it off save for our "boss" who was the last one to be woken and therefor took longer to get dressed. Officer "JA" sees that the head count is one short from what the driver originally told him and again lashes out at him for the apparent inconsistency. "How do you not know how many people are on your bus?" "Are you intentionally lying to me?" Then our boss rolls off the bus and the agent quickly shuts his mouth as he sees all nine (8 + driver) of us present.
We proceed inside and through the first set of glass doors where there is a desk with two officers, and they direct us inside another set of doors where we will be helped. There are eight total computer stations and only four seem to manned. However there is only one other person waiting so we assume this will be quick. One of the computer officers tells us to sit tight off to the side and they will be with us shortly. After about five minutes one of the two officers from the vestibule comes inside and asks us to "do us a favor and keep your hands out of your pockets". Give me a f*****g break!!! Its freezing cold outside, we're all still warming up. This isn't a traffic stop by the side of a dimly lit road. We're not a bunch of long haired, tattooed bohemoths. We're US citizens returning home from our jobs, but of course we're the enemy...guilty until proven innocent. I felt like saying "I'll take my hands out of my pockets if you'll take your head out of your a**", but I decided against it.
After fifteen minutes someone directs us up to the desk to turn in our passports, but not before another officer came up to us and snidely asked us why we were standing off to the side. "You'll never get helped if you don't stand in line". We told him that we'd been instructed to stand there since we were a group. He shrugged and walked off.
Radios crackled..."dog is on the bus". Blah blah. We don't do drugs, so have fun with that search.
All the while three crooked pictures of "W", Skeletor and Rummy sneered at us from across the room. If only I could get away with a few well aimed spitballs.
Then I noticed the "U.S. Customs Mission Statement" hanging on the wall. I don't recall all of the text and I can't find it online, but I remember it mentioned something about "treating all persons with respect and courtesy, regardless of nationality". It made me chuckle out loud. Seriously? Wow...someone has a good sense of humor.
We finally were back on our way after a total of about 40 minutes. Our bunks had been tossed. Some other things were obviously moved about. I know, I know. "You could've had drugs or weapons or bombs or terrywrists".
But we didn't. We were US citizens returning to our homes where we pay taxes and are "normal" members of society. But at least for me, I left the border feeling guilty, as if I'd done something wrong. I felt like a criminal for those 30-40 minutes. There was never a "benefit of doubt" given to us.
Maybe it because our driver picked the wrong lane on the wrong morning and got the bad shift. I doubt it.
Just got home from a three week tour (I am a musician if my handle didn't already make that clear) of the Eastern US along with a couple Midwestern shows and one in Toronto. We crossed the Canadian border from Buffalo, NY on our way to the Toronto show. This was quite possibly the most painless border crossing I have ever experienced. Although, I must admit that the officer who approached our bus was a huge fan and actually had been waiting on us to cross with hopes of meeting our "boss". So...I guess that had a lot to do with our <10 minute crossing which included a quick check of all passports while we all sat comfortably on the bus, and no officers ever set foot onboard.
The return crossing was a VERY different story...
We left Toronto early in the wee hours and crossed back into the US somewhere near Detroit I believe (I'm not real familiar with the various entry/exit spots nor do I know which highway we were on). We arrived sometime around 6am...all eight of us sleeping soundly in our bunks. Apparently our bus driver made a very innocent mistake by misreading a poorly lit sign and took us into the wrong lane. The first responding officer was a complete jackass to our driver, continually making snide remarks and asking rhetorical, condescending questions ( i.e. "How come you didn't see the sign when everyone else does?").
Everyone woke up and got dressed as quickly as possible. We know the routine...we'll all have to get off the bus and go inside. Our tour manager asked us all to wait just outside the bus so we could enter as a group; normal routine. Again, officer "JA" didn't like this and was getting impatient with us. It was cold...low 30's and we were all in PJ's essentially so we didn't want to stand there any longer than necessary.
Eventually we all make it off save for our "boss" who was the last one to be woken and therefor took longer to get dressed. Officer "JA" sees that the head count is one short from what the driver originally told him and again lashes out at him for the apparent inconsistency. "How do you not know how many people are on your bus?" "Are you intentionally lying to me?" Then our boss rolls off the bus and the agent quickly shuts his mouth as he sees all nine (8 + driver) of us present.
We proceed inside and through the first set of glass doors where there is a desk with two officers, and they direct us inside another set of doors where we will be helped. There are eight total computer stations and only four seem to manned. However there is only one other person waiting so we assume this will be quick. One of the computer officers tells us to sit tight off to the side and they will be with us shortly. After about five minutes one of the two officers from the vestibule comes inside and asks us to "do us a favor and keep your hands out of your pockets". Give me a f*****g break!!! Its freezing cold outside, we're all still warming up. This isn't a traffic stop by the side of a dimly lit road. We're not a bunch of long haired, tattooed bohemoths. We're US citizens returning home from our jobs, but of course we're the enemy...guilty until proven innocent. I felt like saying "I'll take my hands out of my pockets if you'll take your head out of your a**", but I decided against it.
After fifteen minutes someone directs us up to the desk to turn in our passports, but not before another officer came up to us and snidely asked us why we were standing off to the side. "You'll never get helped if you don't stand in line". We told him that we'd been instructed to stand there since we were a group. He shrugged and walked off.
Radios crackled..."dog is on the bus". Blah blah. We don't do drugs, so have fun with that search.
All the while three crooked pictures of "W", Skeletor and Rummy sneered at us from across the room. If only I could get away with a few well aimed spitballs.
Then I noticed the "U.S. Customs Mission Statement" hanging on the wall. I don't recall all of the text and I can't find it online, but I remember it mentioned something about "treating all persons with respect and courtesy, regardless of nationality". It made me chuckle out loud. Seriously? Wow...someone has a good sense of humor.
We finally were back on our way after a total of about 40 minutes. Our bunks had been tossed. Some other things were obviously moved about. I know, I know. "You could've had drugs or weapons or bombs or terrywrists".
But we didn't. We were US citizens returning to our homes where we pay taxes and are "normal" members of society. But at least for me, I left the border feeling guilty, as if I'd done something wrong. I felt like a criminal for those 30-40 minutes. There was never a "benefit of doubt" given to us.
Maybe it because our driver picked the wrong lane on the wrong morning and got the bad shift. I doubt it.
Nov 4, 2008, 5:07 am
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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...and all this done to US citizens returning to their own country. Now imagine the handling foreign nationals are likely to get.
Reading this takes me back to the 80's when crossing from the West into the Soviet Union on rail...
These past 15-20 years I've not got such a treatment in any of the many places I've been to, including Middle-Eastern dictatorship of various persuasions. And when I'm returning to the EU, I never get more than a glance on my passport/ID card.
NB - what can I expect from US immigration, with my EU passport being chock full of "suspicious" visas? Iran, Syria, Saudi + other "friendly" Arab (but I don't expect an Immigration Officer to decrypt a Jordanian or Omani visa and recognize those as "friendly)
Reading this takes me back to the 80's when crossing from the West into the Soviet Union on rail...
These past 15-20 years I've not got such a treatment in any of the many places I've been to, including Middle-Eastern dictatorship of various persuasions. And when I'm returning to the EU, I never get more than a glance on my passport/ID card.
NB - what can I expect from US immigration, with my EU passport being chock full of "suspicious" visas? Iran, Syria, Saudi + other "friendly" Arab (but I don't expect an Immigration Officer to decrypt a Jordanian or Omani visa and recognize those as "friendly)
Last edited by WilcoRoger; Nov 4, 2008 at 11:11 am
Nov 4, 2008, 10:07 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2004
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For the last twenty-five years, the US border security and immigration process for coming back to the states from Canada has been irretrievably rude, lacking in consistent logic, and without utility as far as I can tell.
1. It is Canada, America's Hat. What could we possibly be doing up there that could make you treat us like we were member of the Soviet Tank Brigade?
2. We are clearly Americans, driving American cars, talking in American accents, making derogatory comments about you as per the American Bill of Rights. Again, why waste out tax dollars hassling us?
3. Etc.
1. It is Canada, America's Hat. What could we possibly be doing up there that could make you treat us like we were member of the Soviet Tank Brigade?
2. We are clearly Americans, driving American cars, talking in American accents, making derogatory comments about you as per the American Bill of Rights. Again, why waste out tax dollars hassling us?
3. Etc.
Nov 4, 2008, 1:49 pm
#7
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...and all this done to US citizens returning to their own country. Now imagine the handling foreign nationals are likely to get.
Reading this takes me back to the 80's when crossing from the West into the Soviet Union on rail...
These past 15-20 years I've not got such a treatment in any of the many places I've been to, including Middle-Eastern dictatorship of various persuasions. And when I'm returning to the EU, I never get more than a glance on my passport/ID card.
NB - what can I expect from US immigration, with my EU passport being chock full of "suspicious" visas? Iran, Syria, Saudi + other "friendly" Arab (but I don't expect an Immigration Officer to decrypt a Jordanian or Omani visa and recognize those as "friendly)
Reading this takes me back to the 80's when crossing from the West into the Soviet Union on rail...
These past 15-20 years I've not got such a treatment in any of the many places I've been to, including Middle-Eastern dictatorship of various persuasions. And when I'm returning to the EU, I never get more than a glance on my passport/ID card.
NB - what can I expect from US immigration, with my EU passport being chock full of "suspicious" visas? Iran, Syria, Saudi + other "friendly" Arab (but I don't expect an Immigration Officer to decrypt a Jordanian or Omani visa and recognize those as "friendly)
But I agree completely, that no Arab or Muslim state has ever subjected me to the hostility that the Americans subject middle eastern visitors to.
Nov 4, 2008, 2:38 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I sympathize! I really do! But at the same time, as a non-American (I'm Canadian) it's oddly reassuring that even you guys are treated that way too.
The thing is, the wall of security ought to be harmonized (and normalized!!) and placed around North America. The north-south flow between Canada and US should be free-flowing. In Europe you can move very freely between countries and never have to stop for any customs check. This is how things ought to be between Canada and US.
But no - the Bush Administration insisted on having onerous checks in place around Fortress America where everyone trying to get in is immediately suspected of being Osama's closest relative ...
Sigh.
The thing is, the wall of security ought to be harmonized (and normalized!!) and placed around North America. The north-south flow between Canada and US should be free-flowing. In Europe you can move very freely between countries and never have to stop for any customs check. This is how things ought to be between Canada and US.
But no - the Bush Administration insisted on having onerous checks in place around Fortress America where everyone trying to get in is immediately suspected of being Osama's closest relative ...
Sigh.