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Old Sep 13, 17, 4:03 am   #1
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I think, I've just been tricked by SAS representative by amount of taxes taken

I called to Eurobonus to get 2 Award tickets in Economy for HKG-NRT flight by ANA. They asked for 30000 points and apr. 1200NOK taxes (so it was 600NOK per passenger). I agreed, but raised a questions why there were so much taxes. Just because it was second time me calling them, firstly I had decided to get just one ticket for Bisness (same route, same day, same airline) and they issued a ticket for 30000 points and apr. 330 NOK (and nothing else), and then I decided to return that ticket.
They said that previously the agent didn't calculate a fuel surcharge. And they have to add it. Now I have these economy tickets issued and taxes collected, but I'm in doubt.
I cheked these tickets on ANA website, and there were no such tax as fuel surcharge, and taxes were about 300 NOK, which seemed about right.
I did dummy booking on Wideroe site for OSL-HKG HKG-NRT NRT-OSL (1 ticket, Economy) and got quote for taxes - 2940NOK, then another dummy for OSL-HKG and NRT-OSL and got 2683 NOK, so the difference is 300 NOK again.
I have M&M miles, I called them before all this and they also said that taxes should be around 300NOK for 1 ticket for Economy.
I could be mistaken, and taxes for regular ticket are not the same as for award ticket, but why did they issue my first ticket with half amount of taxes and why there are some mystical fuel surcharge if ANA don't even collect one.
How I can check it for sure and is there a possibility to get some refund if I'm right, if the tickets were issued already?
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Old Sep 13, 17, 4:54 am   #2
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The fuel surcharge for award tickets is a special thing that is charged by many airlines (which also don't charge it often on discount revenue fares). I have no idea whether it is standard to charge YQ on ANA tickets when bought with EB points. I have no prior experience.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 5:25 am   #3
  
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For a revenue ticket you should be charged about 3500 yen in economy and 4500 in business class for a one way ticket from Hong Kong to Tokyo. So slightly less or slightly more than 300 NOK. But there are differences between revenue and award tickets.

On my last redemption on NH I paid DKK 3416 in cash for a TPAC return ticket. Though that was in late 2015 so tricky compare.

Last edited by CPH-Flyer; Sep 13, 17 at 4:34 pm
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Old Sep 13, 17, 5:46 am   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepylka View Post
I called to Eurobonus to get 2 Award tickets in Economy for HKG-NRT flight by ANA. They asked for 30000 points and apr. 1200NOK taxes (so it was 600NOK per passenger). I agreed, but raised a questions why there were so much taxes. Just because it was second time me calling them, firstly I had decided to get just one ticket for Bisness (same route, same day, same airline) and they issued a ticket for 30000 points and apr. 330 NOK (and nothing else), and then I decided to return that ticket.
They said that previously the agent didn't calculate a fuel surcharge. And they have to add it. Now I have these economy tickets issued and taxes collected, but I'm in doubt.
I cheked these tickets on ANA website, and there were no such tax as fuel surcharge, and taxes were about 300 NOK, which seemed about right.
I did dummy booking on Wideroe site for OSL-HKG HKG-NRT NRT-OSL (1 ticket, Economy) and got quote for taxes - 2940NOK, then another dummy for OSL-HKG and NRT-OSL and got 2683 NOK, so the difference is 300 NOK again.
I have M&M miles, I called them before all this and they also said that taxes should be around 300NOK for 1 ticket for Economy.
I could be mistaken, and taxes for regular ticket are not the same as for award ticket, but why did they issue my first ticket with half amount of taxes and why there are some mystical fuel surcharge if ANA don't even collect one.
How I can check it for sure and is there a possibility to get some refund if I'm right, if the tickets were issued already?


SAS charges fixed amount of fuel surcharge regardless the number of flights per direction on Star Alliance award.
116 EUR per direction if it includes long haul flight.
I don't know how much the fix amount is if it's short haul award (like within Asia).


If I understand your comment correctly, you have booked:
1. first award ticket: Oslo-(via somewhere)-Hong Kong // open jaw // Tokyo-(via somewhere)-Oslo
2, second award ticket: Hong Kong-Tokyo one way by ANA

If the first award ticket is solely by SAS, you don't have to pay fuel surcharge at all.
But if the first award ticket is Star Alliance award and includes partner airlines flights both outbound and inbound, you have to pay 116 EUR x 2 for fuel surcharge (not taxes).

On the second award ticket you have to pay a fixed amount of fuel surcharge governed by SAS (not by ANA), but I don't know how much it is.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 6:00 am   #5
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Thank you all for your answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHO View Post
If I understand your comment correctly, you have booked:
1. first award ticket: Oslo-(via somewhere)-Hong Kong // open jaw // Tokyo-(via somewhere)-Oslo
2, second award ticket: Hong Kong-Tokyo one way by ANA.
No, not quite right. I have separate tickets for OSL-HKG and NRT-OSL with OW carrier (Finnair to be exact).I've only got HKG-NRT award tickets. I understand now, that SAS can charge me for fuel surchage themself, but question is yet how much?
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Old Sep 13, 17, 6:25 am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepylka View Post
Thank you all for your answers

No, not quite right. I have separate tickets for OSL-HKG and NRT-OSL with OW carrier (Finnair to be exact).I've only got HKG-NRT award tickets. I understand now, that SAS can charge me for fuel surchage themself, but question is yet how much?
If it's a combination of:
1, Finnair ticket: Oslo-Helsinki-Hong Kong // open jaw // Tokyo-Helsinki-Oslo
2, SAS EuroBonus award ticket: Hong Kong-Tokyo one way by ANA

Why did you calculate the sum of the taxes and fuel surcharges together from the beginning?
It's totally unnecessary and confusing.
If you doubt overcharge by SAS, you should calculate only SAS award part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepylka View Post
I did dummy booking on Wideroe site for OSL-HKG HKG-NRT NRT-OSL (1 ticket, Economy) and got quote for taxes - 2940NOK, then another dummy for OSL-HKG and NRT-OSL and got 2683 NOK, so the difference is 300 NOK again.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 6:42 am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHO View Post
If it's a combination of:
1, Finnair ticket: Oslo-Helsinki-Hong Kong // open jaw // Tokyo-Helsinki-Oslo
2, SAS EuroBonus award ticket: Hong Kong-Tokyo one way by ANA

Why did you calculate the sum of the taxes and fuel surcharges together from the beginning?
It's totally unnecessary and confusing.
If you doubt overcharge by SAS, you should calculate only SAS award part.
I'm sorry if I mislead you, but it was just one of the examples I quoted to prove my point. Other examples as M&M awards have similar taxes. I may be don't understand the concept, thats why I wrote my question here - to get some help.
And I can't use any Eurobonus charts, they don't give taxes for Star Alliance flights, just amount of points.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 6:42 am   #8
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HKGNRT in J attracts 34€ (~319NOK) in taxes and surcharges, even when plated on SK 117 stock.

Code:
01 JOWJJ      *          * 1          *   1455.72  *      *Y

LAST TKT DTE 30OCT17 - DATE OF ORIGIN
------------------------------------------------------------
     AL FLGT  BK T DATE  TIME  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA   BG
 HKG
 TYO NH   812 J  J 30OCT 1000  JOWJJ                      2P

HKD    13310      30OCT17HKG NH TYO1707.57NUC1707.57END ROE
EUR  1421.00      7.794690
EUR    12.82HK
EUR    17.09G3
EUR     4.81I5
EUR  1455.72
RATE USED 1HKD=0.106761EUR
ANCILLARY SERVICES AT A CHARGE MAY BE AVAILABLE-ENTER FXK
BG CXR: NH
PRICED WITH VALIDATING CARRIER NH - REPRICE IF DIFFERENT VC
SUBJ TO CANCELLATION/CHANGE PENALTY
>                                                 PAGE  2/ 2

>

fxx/r,vc-sk

FXX/R,VC-SK

 * FARE BASIS *  DISC    *  PTC       * FARE<EUR>  * MSG  *T
01 JOWJJ      *          * 1          *   1455.72  *      *Y
>                                                 PAGE  1/ 1

>

fqq1

FQQ1                                                                            
                                                                                
01 JOWJJ      *          * 1          *   1455.72  *      *Y                    
                                                                                
LAST TKT DTE 30OCT17 - DATE OF ORIGIN                                           
------------------------------------------------------------                    
     AL FLGT  BK T DATE  TIME  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA   BG                    
 HKG                                                                            
 TYO NH   812 J  J 30OCT 1000  JOWJJ                      2P                    
                                                                                
HKD    13310      30OCT17HKG NH TYO1707.57NUC1707.57END ROE                     
EUR  1421.00      7.794690                                                      
EUR    12.82HK                                                                  
EUR    17.09G3                                                                  
EUR     4.81I5                                                                  
EUR  1455.72                                                                    
RATE USED 1HKD=0.106761EUR                                                      
ANCILLARY SERVICES AT A CHARGE MAY BE AVAILABLE-ENTER FXK                       
BG CXR: NH                                                                      
WARNING - VC SK FAILED TICKET-ABILITY PRE-CHECKS                                
SUBJ TO CANCELLATION/CHANGE PENALTY                                             
>                                                 PAGE  2/ 2                    
>
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Old Sep 13, 17, 7:02 am   #9
  
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I just checked ITA Matrix.

ANA does not charge YQ for Y tickets HKG-NRT.

Here is the fare construction for a random Y ticket in Oct.(the important part is in bold):

HKG NH TYO 596.55URFJ0O NUC 596.55 END ROE 7.79469 XT 90G3 120HK 45I5

HKG depart. tax is 90 HKD,
HKG construction fee 120 HKD
HKG security Charge 45 HKD.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 7:07 am   #10
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So ANA doesn't charge YQ but SAS does? I'm not sure how I can check it. If I call SAS again, they propaply will say me the same amount. I don't have any arguments, I guess. And I've already paid them taxes.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 7:10 am   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepylka View Post
So ANA doesn't charge YQ but SAS does? I'm not sure how I can check it. If I call SAS again, they propaply will say me the same amount. I don't have any arguments, I guess. And I've already paid them taxes.
As I told you, SAS charges a fixed amount of fuel surcharge per direction when you book Star Alliance award.
This does not apply when you book:
  • solely within USA
  • solely within Japan
  • solely within Brazil

I know the amount for award travel which includes long haul flight (116 EUR per direction), but I don't know how much it is for award travel which includes short haul flight only.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 8:08 am   #12
  
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I thought fuel surcharges were not allowed from HKG Thailand Brazil etc? Or perhaps I remember incorrectly?
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Old Sep 13, 17, 8:54 am   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK AAR View Post
I just checked ITA Matrix.

ANA does not charge YQ for Y tickets HKG-NRT.

Here is the fare construction for a random Y ticket in Oct.(the important part is in bold):

HKG NH TYO 596.55URFJ0O NUC 596.55 END ROE 7.79469 XT 90G3 120HK 45I5

HKG depart. tax is 90 HKD,
HKG construction fee 120 HKD
HKG security Charge 45 HKD.
Its been reported many times on FT that it has often little to do with what the operating airline charges. The YQ charges (AKA scam charges) are quite often added by the selling airline/FFP.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 10:24 am   #14
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauppias View Post
I thought fuel surcharges were not allowed from HKG Thailand Brazil etc? Or perhaps I remember incorrectly?
This is my understanding also, just like Brazil.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 10:45 am   #15
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHO View Post
I know the amount for award travel which includes long haul flight (116 EUR per direction), but I don't know how much it is for award travel which includes short haul flight only.
SK goes by the number of IATA areas crossed when calculating YQ. Within one area (e.g. area 1-area 1; HKG-NRT) it should be ~36 unless it's wholly within one of those YQ-exempt countries. For instance, US-US would be YQ free but US-CA attracts the scam charge.

It's 116 for each area crossed. If you fly TPAC from Asia to US it'll be one area crossed (3 to 1), so it'll be 116. If you fly via Europe, it'll be Area 3-2-1, so 232.

Whether this is good or bad depends on your itinerary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kauppias View Post
I thought fuel surcharges were not allowed from HKG Thailand Brazil etc? Or perhaps I remember incorrectly?
The operating carrier shouldn't levy surcharges, but I'm not sure if the issuing carrier (SK) cares. In this case SK doesn't base their YQ calculation on what the operating carrier charges, so I'm not surprised it's levied ex-HKG
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