FlyerTalker01565

Hi guys,

Been doing a bit of SAS long-haul lately and one thing that always strikes me is how empty SAS Business can be ... up until the actual flying takes place. On my last flight, I asked the FA - 6 of 34 pax in Business were ID passengers (people with close relatives in SAS or off-work FAs).

I find it in pretty poor taste that SAS allows ID pax to travel in Business. For reference, a r/t flight to EWR is DKK 1200 for ID pax. All included.

I enjoy having a spare seat next to me - as we all do - but if revenue pax travel there, fine, we're all helping SAS. Having pax on board who barely pay their own taxes does nothing for SAS and it certainly doesn't increase my need to fly in the front of the plane if that's essentially just a Friends N' Family on Free Tickets! Cabin.

Are there ever spare seats when you guys fly SAS Business? Or do you have to pay for premium flight experiences for the FA's families, too?

oliver2002

Flying on ID tickets is a perk of working for an airline. That said, RM applies there too. SK doesn't release many seats for the low low ID90 ticket price the OP mentions. To plan your vacation you need to book ID10 tickets

WorldtravellerExtraordinaire

To be honest i don't see the issue as long as they are well behaved and doesn't cause unnecessary disturbances. Would you have known they were ID passengers had you not asked the flight attendant? No. Your fare-quote is incorrect. As this informations neither is nor should be available to the general public i will not correct you, but the fare quoted is not correct. In case you did not know, ID (and AD) passengers travel on a "space-available" basis, they are not blocking space from revenue customers and pax upgrading at the gate etc. If the plane is full they do not fly. And please remember, carrying ID passengers is not unique to SAS, most if not all airlines allow ID passengers onboard.

Arguing that someone should not be allowed in a particular cabin based on the fare they paid smells like envy to me...

Gnopps

I agree with the previous poster. Most ID-pax travel on a stand-by basis and thus don't take any space from normal travellers. I used to work for an airline myself but rarely used ID-tickets as I preferred knowing when I get how, rather than risk being offloaded or spending a long-haul in a jumpseat.

FlyerTalker01565

No, I agree

Maybe when they were going through staff security in EWR? Or when they gathered to talk to the FAs after the flight and had to get off first to catch the crew bus to the FA hotel in Jersey City?

I have held the confirmation with the exact price on it in my hand. My very pleasant seat neighbor was an ID pax on a recent EWR flight. 1216,- to be exact. SEK, that is.

Why would you assume I didn't know?

Again, I know. Not all airlines have 6/34 flying their premium cabin, though. Some airlines reserve their First for rev. pax and awards, for example. Before you think you have a case; I know SAS doesn't have First. Thanks.

Control yourself. Money isn't a scarce resource for most people who pay to fly Business, time and convenience are.How about using the space in Business to up-op some EBDs, for example? And let the non-paying friends fly in Plus instead?

FlyerTalker01565

It's not a discussion around whether they should fly or not. It's about whether they should fly for free in SAS' best product, the long-haul Business cabin. I don't think you should ever have a Business cabin with that many non-revenue generating pax. I think any extra space should be used to give better experiences for loyal customers - and then have the people who barely pay their own taxes sit in Plus or coach.

CPH-Flyer

I don't mind the ID passengers in business for whatever price they paid, as long as every revenue passenger that has made a point upgrade request has received it, and provided that they actually had an ID ticket for business to begin with or pay the ID fare difference. If they are receiving an op up, I know that happens when they know the gate agent, something is wrong. I can't say if it happens a lot, or very rarely, but it happens.

Why do I think a point upgrade should go before an ID seat? Points are also a revenue for the airline when used.

It is just a staff discount, most companies have them. Under Danish and Swedish tax laws, and I assume Norwegian, it is a taxable benefit if you sell your goods to your staff at a loss. But if you look at the cost per seat kilometer, a ticket can be very cheap and still not at a loss. The taxes to e.g. Tokyo is 453 DKK, so the ID tickets cover more than "barely" the taxes. You might be thinking barely covering the YQ, but most of the YQ is just another revenue definition for the airline.

FlyerTalker01565

Thanks for the reply and the clarification. I just asked a friend in SAS (ground in CPH). Apparently, SAS does have pretty strict ID pax rules concerning SAS Business (down to attire). They can't do much if they aren't enforced by the flight crews, of course, and he said it sounded odd with that many ID pax on SAS Business if any at all. I don't know the accuracy of that information.

view

This is a historical issue with SAS; it has been like that always and it used to be even a lot worse.

I think it is fine to upgrade ID pax into C on a space available basis. What I do not appreciate is the obvious royal treatment sometimes seen given to ID pax in long haul C, and also the endless chatter and conversation in the aisles between crew and ID pax. Sometimes I overhear crew discussing/complaining how they have x number of family/friends in economy. Obviously some of the crew have experienced the old golden days and are used to certain things happening, but for meg the ID upgrade should not be a noticeable event.

Points upgrades and Optiontown are ways for SAS to try and curtail ID upgrades (while also making a buck).

Gnopps

If I understand you correctly, with the same logic people who pay more to fly in economy class should take the seats of those who paid less to sit in business?

If SAS policy were to give upgrades to its EBD-members even if not overbooked, as some airlines do/did (OK used to have system-wide free ugprades for its elites), then I fully agree with you: Upgrade an EBD before giving the seat to an ID. As it is now however, SAS does not have a general upgrade policy unless overbooked, and then I see nothing wrong with letting people who pay different sums travel in the same cabin.

FFlash

This

ph-ndr

I used to travel quite a bit with SAS for work up and down to Asia. After a few really bad run ins with crew I basically voted with my feet and are more than happy to send my money to the Gulf region.

The usual happening would be that I was scheduled to fly on the 340, which back then at least, had a "mini cabin" of two row behind the second galley. More often than not this quiet area would be forfeited between checkin and boarding, only to find it turned into a crew lounge. I always tried to get a peek behind the curtain to verify before firing of an email to cutomer relations upon landing.

Customer relations would swiftly and politely reply with the usual template indicating that they were aghast that crew would move around paying passengers to deal with their own friendly upgrades.

Then combine that with the front galley/toilets being cordoned off to avoid paying passengers using the holy lands of the crew and being chewed out a few times when one crew wants to reseat me from one isle to the other isle to accomodate other ID pax, then I've simply had it.

Another thing I've noticed increasingly onboard before leaving is that if the ranking crew in the cabin was not danish then the danish crew in business class would pretty much do their own show and leave the rest of the crew to do whatever they wanted. I even had one of my chewingsout by danish crew with a norwegian purser nearby that was explicitly told to stay out of it and didn't dare intervene to settle the issues.

So all in all, I'm not surprised this still goes on, and I'm more than happy paying half the fare to someone undercutting their jobs. For anyone crying foul, I gave it almost two years of trying to enjoy it, but someone has completely lost the plot at SAS...

-A

GUWonder

Some long-haul routes seem way more popular for ID travel than other routes. The SK ID travel practices don't bother me or disrupt my experience on board, but I would prefer that these seats would be more reliably available for point upgrades, cash upgrades or award ticket space.

gnaget

SK employees are able to purchase C class ID tickets at a higher price. It is several X higher than the cited 1200 SEK. This seems surprisingly low even for economy.

The passenger in this case probably knew someone at the gate who did him a favor. He essentially got an op-up, which should have been given to a paying passenger in my opinion if M/Y was oversold.

I can tell you that employees who buy C class ID tickets often get downgraded to Y because C is full of paying passengers and/or upgrades.

FlyerTalker01565

Ah. This details the issue a little more. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this a bit, shall we say, odd.

I'd like to re-iterate that it isn't about flying cheap for me. I think, however, SAS could use spare Business seats a hell of a lot better than handing them out to friends at minimal cost - op-ups to loyal customers would be an idea.