Tiki, I'm a moderator at the site you're referencing (Check post #24 again, notice the edit.).
You almost seem upset that people are interested in prizes besides miles. Humorous, I must say. However, at 28,000 points, and retailing for $319 (And selling on eBay for upwards of $150 (not including shipping)), Windows Vista Ultimate is a much better deal than forking over close to 50,000 points for an amount of FF miles that can net you $105 or so in Amazon.com gift cards. And even the Zune is a better deal than the FF miles. 38,500 points for a 30 Gigabyte first generation Zune MP3 player that will sell for between $100 and $150 on eBay? Better deal than the miles once again.
Don't be upset with us because we understand simple math better than you.
The crowd at CN is for the most part quite an educated crowd. The member who asked what FF miles were is a new member. He joined this January, and is not representative of the general population of the website. You can laugh at him (feel free -- he's been nothing but an idiotic member anyways.), but you'd be wrong to say that in doing so you were laughing at the entire site.
Now, excuse me, but I must go and continue having a good laugh while the members here become enraged at the CN community. Yes -- you are all FF mile "experts" here. But I'm willing to bet that in the past few months, half the members of CN have gotten more miles from Club Live than you "experts" here have. It's about being resourceful. We work with what we have to work with. Those making the bots educate themselves and the public, and hey -- we get free Zunes, software, and FF miles with it. Can't beat that, can you?
And make the games "bot-proof"? LOL. Oh, thank you! I needed a good laugh this morning. We can always make bots that act just like a human for simple games like those on Club Live. Easy. Club Live is caught in a dilemma though. If they try to make the games more bot-proof, they're only going to frustrate more legitimate sucke-- err, players, hence the speed captchas. But that's easy to bypass too. Cheat Engine, speed hack Firefox. The games will run at an increased speed, but you type at your same old speed. Overall, the game thinks you're just typing super slow. Therefore, no captchas. But, back on topic here, if they try to make the games more bot-proof, they'd end up having to increase the number of captchas dramatically. You don't want that, do you?
(And by the way, I type 135 WPM. No, that's not a lie. So don't think that you're the only people affected by the speed captchas. We're just smart enough to say "Hey, this is stupid," and find ways around them.)
Also, just because I know you guys here will get your panties in more knots at me saying this: The topic starter didn't even use a bot to get those 75,000 FF miles. He used Tamper Data (Google it. You do know what Google is, right?) and figured out exactly what to edit to trick points.com into thinking he redeemed for more miles than he really did. While it would take you guys probably half an hour to click and fill out redemption information for that many miles, he did that in... oh... about 12 seconds.
Cheers.
-sc4fpse
live search club would go belly up if it weren't for the help of CN
You almost seem upset that people are interested in prizes besides miles. .....
Don't be upset with us because we understand simple math better than you.
It seems some FTers have taken LSC a a playground designed for,around and about them. Then they get squirrelly and scared if they use an anagram solver, waste hours manually typing in solutions, and spend most their waking hours trying to interpret generic LSC responses. Get a life, go fly!
Thank you sc4fpse for pointing out what anyone with access to Google (or YouTube) should have known from day one!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc4fpse
He used Tamper Data (Google it. You do know what Google is, right?) and figured out exactly what to edit to trick points.com into thinking he redeemed for more miles than he really did.
So he committed fraud, and you are an accessory to it, is that right? Lovely. I'm so happy at how ethical people are... it makes me glad to be human, really.
This is why points don't post immediately from points.com. For every redemption from Live Search Club, someone (or perhaps a program) has to confirm / check that the earning is within the limits and T&Cs of Live Search Club.
I'd be very surprised if the points did appear in any frequent flyer program, after they were redeemed in the above manner. The corporate.points.com URIs are all specific to microsoft and club live search.
I'd still have to say that miles are/were one of the best value redemptions on Club Live Search. If they weren't worth that much, then probably this site, and stories of the Pudding Guy, Cheese Wheels Runs, Mileage Runs, Mattress Runs, etc wouldn't exist.
Do let us know if anyone manages to get 1 Million Miles or 2 Million Miles in AAdvantage, though. That will get someone lifetime status.
You may earn tickets by participating in Activities that you can redeem for prizes. Your participation in Activities shall be subject to additional rules or play guidelines ("Rules"). Microsoft may limit or restrict your ability to participate in certain Activities and may limit the number of tickets you can earn for an Activity including the number of tickets you can earn per day. If you download the Live Search Club toolbar you may earn tickets for Searches using the toolbar when logged in with your Windows Live™ ID. A "Search" is the act of an individual user manually entering text on the Site for the good faith purpose of obtaining results for such user’s own research purpose, as determined by Microsoft. A Search does not include any query entered by a bot, macro or other automated or fraudulent means of any kind. Microsoft will determine what constitutes a Search and may limit the tickets earned for activities such as the repeated entry of the same search query term.
To sc4fpse and the other botter/cheaters: The above is taken from the T&C of LSC. Up until a few weeks ago, FTers were able to get unlimited FF miles accrued at 1000 tickets per day to their accounts and we used nothing more than anagram solvers and manual typing. We always knew there was a market for the computer/gaming based prizes but didn't care because it wasn't affecting us. NOW because of the botter/cheaters we can only get one of each redemption per account. Some of us have redemptions outstanding from last year that NEVER posted through no fault of our own. So don't blame us if we are not happy with those who spoiled it for everyone else.
You almost seem upset that people are interested in prizes besides miles. Humorous, I must say. However, at 28,000 points, and retailing for $319 (And selling on eBay for upwards of $150 (not including shipping)), Windows Vista Ultimate is a much better deal than forking over close to 50,000 points for an amount of FF miles that can net you $105 or so in Amazon.com gift cards. And even the Zune is a better deal than the FF miles. 38,500 points for a 30 Gigabyte first generation Zune MP3 player that will sell for between $100 and $150 on eBay? Better deal than the miles once again.
Don't be upset with us because we understand simple math better than you.
If someone redeemed 172,000 tickets for 100,000 AA miles before the change
of terms and conditions, he or she could have used 100,000 miles to redeem for a saver business class award ticket to either Europe, Asia or South America, that would have otherwise costed $4000 to $5000. That's at least a $650 value for 28,000 tickets, or $895 for 38,500 tickets.
I think pretty much everybody here has luggage older than these guys.
It's all about ethics. Yes, they are much more knowledged in coding, but that doesn't make a better person. The TOS are very clear.
So take all that cash you make and go rent a girlfriend. I'll bet there are quite a few there who need one. Or use those FF miles and actually go somewhere. The world is a wonderful place and you can't see enough of it.....unless you move out of your parent's basement.
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I think pretty much everybody here has luggage older than these guys.
It's all about ethics. Yes, they are much more knowledged in coding, but that doesn't make a better person. The TOS are very clear.
So take all that cash you make and go rent a girlfriend. I'll bet there are quite a few there who need one. Or use those FF miles and actually go somewhere. The world is a wonderful place and you can't see enough of it.....unless you move out of your parent's basement.
These kids have probably not been off their block. Or out of their bedrooms (or wherever it is they cheat the system from). I agree comment about ethics. The problem guys, this is the future of our world. Sad isn't it?
If someone redeemed 172,000 tickets for 100,000 AA miles before the change
of terms and conditions, he or she could have used 100,000 miles to redeem for a saver business class award ticket to either Europe, Asia or South America, that would have otherwise costed $4000 to $5000. That's at least a $650 value for 28,000 tickets, or $895 for 38,500 tickets.
Simple math for the simple minded. More complex math/calculation for the learned, and more world-traveled. Hmmmm.
If someone redeemed 172,000 tickets for 100,000 AA miles before the change
of terms and conditions, he or she could have used 100,000 miles to redeem for a saver business class award ticket to either Europe, Asia or South America, that would have otherwise costed $4000 to $5000. That's at least a $650 value for 28,000 tickets, or $895 for 38,500 tickets.
And here your logic fails again.
A $4000 or $5000 plane ticket is only worth the paper that it is printed on. Good luck finding somebody personally that you can buy that for and sell to them. And you know those online brokers? Check the airlines' Terms of Service again (Seeing as how you all hold that closer than your bible.). Brokers are against the TOS.
A Zune? $150 on eBay. A copy of Windows Vista Ultimate? $150+ on eBay... or closer to $300 if you know what you're doing. That's cold hard cash, not a flimsy piece of paper and a flight to somewhere that you wouldn't go anyways. And you'd better hope you've accumulated vacation days at your place of employment... although, for reasons I'm about to list, I somehow doubt that many of you are employed.
Each of the anagram games contains 35 words that needs to be entered, except in the case of the few "bugged" puzzles which contain a few less. We'll assume one types a word each second, as that is about as fast as the bots that actually entered the letters can actually enter without triggering the secondary speed captchas. 10 seconds to load a new puzzle, 35 seconds (again, a generous assumption, as no human will type exactly 1 word per second, and considering standard human deviation, you're likely to trigger the speed captcha at least once unless you slow yourself down) per puzzle for entering words, and then 5 more seconds to submit the puzzle and click to start a new puzzle. 50 seconds per puzzle is a generous estimation for the overall time needed to complete a puzzle and begin a new one, but we'll operate under that assumption.
At 4300 points per every 2500 FF miles, you're looking at... 215 anagram games. 215 anagram games will be 10750 seconds, 179 minutes, or 2.98 hours (Rounded down in a few calculations, just to further prove my point.).
But, of course... 2500 FF miles won't get you anywhere, now, will it? Multiply those numbers by 10. Almost 30 hours for 25,000 FF miles.
One would think that between a job and a family (All you soccer moms here must have a family, now.), that 30 hours for some frequent flyer miles is a little excessive. And, again, that's an extremely generous number, assuming that you sit in front of your computer while not distracted in any way.
Those who use bots to do these tasks allow the bots to work completely in the background. We enter a captcha every so often (Or simply delegate that task to one of many websites that will enter captchas for you... 2000 captchas for $8 or so seems to be the norm.), but otherwise, we are completely free to focus on the more important things in life: Family, school, a job, etc.
You make it a point to indicate that you're much further along in life than some of us. It seems to me that you just don't have anything to do with your time. But I must say, your grays are showing. Your time is counting down. You really shouldn't be so upset that we value our time more than you value yours. By using bots instead of entering all the answers by hand, I'm able to do quite well at college, spend time with my girlfriend, work a steady job, and get plenty of prizes from Club Live on the side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki
To sc4fpse and the other botter/cheaters: The above is taken from the T&C of LSC. Up until a few weeks ago, FTers were able to get unlimited FF miles accrued at 1000 tickets per day to their accounts and we used nothing more than anagram solvers and manual typing. We always knew there was a market for the computer/gaming based prizes but didn't care because it wasn't affecting us. NOW because of the botter/cheaters we can only get one of each redemption per account. Some of us have redemptions outstanding from last year that NEVER posted through no fault of our own. So don't blame us if we are not happy with those who spoiled it for everyone else.
You realize you took that from the section of the Terms of Service dedicated to the Live Search Toolbar. That portion has nothing to do with the games on that site. Please, in the future, try to read a little bit more before posting, so as to prevent making a mockery of yourself.
Hey, if these kids are faster and smarter than the mighty Microsoft engineers and programmers...have at it....Microsoft is one of the bigger criminals in America today, but that's a whole different subject for another day.
Unfortunately, the casual and honest players around here are some of the ones that suffer due to others cheating the system and stealing products, that's the bad part, and it sucks, oh well, that's life.....on the other hand cheating/stealing and/or defrauding any company of goods or services on American soil, is considered a crime in most states, and is quite prosecutable....should the company care.....but I personally could care less as I don't like Microsoft anyway, so I am indifferent.
I am sure Microsoft will wake up very soon and smell the coffee and flex their muscle, and shortly thereafter, the CN site will quite possibly go offline.....JMHO
There are two things to remember in this discussion:
Ethics: MS is using LSC players to cheat the system in an attempt to beat Google in the search engine wars. They are buying votes. So if ethics is your issue, you shouldn't be playing at all.
Spoiling it for others: LSC has been running for almost two years, with both bots and with "honest" players. The gamers didn't spoil it for FTalkers anymore than FTalkers spoiled it for themselves by redeeming thousands of tickets for FF miles. Being able to redeem multiple airline mile prizes was a loophole in the system, probably allowed because MS figured the miles were not resellable. Now the airline miles prize is under the same rules as all other prizes, one per person.
IMHO anyone who uses an anagram solver to get the answers then thinks typing them in by hand is more ethical than using the autotyper is wrong. It's just harder and more time consuming. Elegant perhaps, like a handwritten note, but a waste of time in this case.
