Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Special Interest Travel > Religious Travelers
Reload this Page >

When does Passover end in flight?

When does Passover end in flight?

Old Mar 27, 2010, 9:46 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,228
When does Passover end in flight?

I'm going to be on a plane from California to Newark on April 6, departing at 3:55pm local time, which would be 6:55pm Newark time. At what point during the flight would you consider Passover to be over?

I wonder if the Kosher meal on that flight would be Kosher for Passover?
tarheelnj is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2010, 8:48 am
  #2  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Chometz may be eaten on 4/6 after 8:46pm EWR time if a person is in NY

The difficulty will be knowing where you are exactly and that its after the time for comsuming chometz on the ground below you at that time.

The real question is if a person is flying East out of NY (to Europe) where hes going ahead in time when is it OK to eat chometz. Someone flying NY-SNA and flying out say at 6pm would end up not being able to eat chometz to alot after 8:46pm NY time since time will be going back as they fly West

for these type of questions its always best to consult your LOR (Local Orthodox Rabbi)

Last edited by craz; Mar 28, 2010 at 10:08 am Reason: misunderstood when the OP would be arriving at EWR
craz is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2010, 9:15 am
  #3  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,431
The OP's flight departs SNA at 6:55 pm EWR's time. It arrives in EWR at 12:06 am the next day (CO 386).

I find your suggestion that the OP consult an Orthodox Rabbi to be curious. An Orthodox person will not be traveling on an airplane during the chag.
TWA884 is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2010, 10:05 am
  #4  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Originally Posted by TWA884
The OP's flight departs SNA at 6:55 pm EWR's time. It arrives in EWR at 12:06 am the next day (CO 386).

I find your suggestion that the OP consult an Orthodox Rabbi to be curious. An Orthodox person will not be traveling on an airplane during the chag.
well Im Orthodox and I will be, and I wil be eating chometz on Tues morning 4/6.

I have a return TLV-PHL-BOS-EWR flight on Mon 4/5. I hold 1 day Yom Tov

I thought the OP was landing at 6:55pm I misread that. What they would need to do is figure out when its past the local time they are flying at at that time for eating chometz. Not an easy thing to do. If it was me Id simply wait till it was past 8:46pm and we were in the Eastern time zone. As DTW is in ETZ yet Shabbos starts and ends there almost an hour after NY

As for an LOR even if a person isnt religious I dont know of any LOR who wouldnt answer their question, cant imagine asking it to someone who doesnt even keep kosher a whole year.

where I grew up the Reform Temple not only had a Kiddush on Yom Kippur but it wasnt even kosher to boot

Last edited by craz; Mar 28, 2010 at 10:11 am
craz is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2010, 1:38 pm
  #5  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,431
All Conservative congregations where I live observe Kashrut year round.

The Reform movement observes only one day of Yom Tov at both the beginning and end of the Passover holiday.

While kitchens at Reform synagogues may not be kosher, I have never seen a Kiddush performed on Yom Kippur or chametz served during Pesach at any of the ones with which I am acquainted.
TWA884 is offline  
Old Mar 29, 2010, 8:31 am
  #6  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,228
Thanks for the comments. I'm not Orthodox, but I do try to follow the food restrictions more closely during Pesach. Even though the easier answer would be to get a Kosher for Passover meal and don't worry about the time, it made me wonder if anyone had ever developed a way to determine the exact moment when Passover ends while on a flight.

I remember reading that Ilan Ramon, before flying on the ill-fated shuttle mission, sought Halachic advice on when to observe Shabbat, whether 1) every 10 1/2 days (based on the Shuttle orbiting the Earth every 90 minutes), 2) once a week, based on Cape Canaveral time (the point from which he would leave the earth), 3) Houston time (which all the other astronauts use as "Official Shuttle Time" for daily activities, or 4) Jerusalem time.
tarheelnj is offline  
Old Mar 29, 2010, 1:02 pm
  #7  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Originally Posted by tarheelnj
Thanks for the comments. I'm not Orthodox, but I do try to follow the food restrictions more closely during Pesach. Even though the easier answer would be to get a Kosher for Passover meal and don't worry about the time, it made me wonder if anyone had ever developed a way to determine the exact moment when Passover ends while on a flight.

I remember reading that Ilan Ramon, before flying on the ill-fated shuttle mission, sought Halachic advice on when to observe Shabbat, whether 1) every 10 1/2 days (based on the Shuttle orbiting the Earth every 90 minutes), 2) once a week, based on Cape Canaveral time (the point from which he would leave the earth), 3) Houston time (which all the other astronauts use as "Official Shuttle Time" for daily activities, or 4) Jerusalem time.
I would be very surprised if the KSML meals served will be reg KSML and not Pesachdik meals for a few days after Passover ends. As it takes time to make them and then ship them out. I remember when TWA once served me a Passover meal out of DC and it was Dec

So the company doing the catering probably has had Passover meals for a few days now and wont switch back till they are all gone
craz is offline  
Old Mar 29, 2010, 6:54 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
I want to wish U all a Happy Passover. As a Gentile, I was always told that Jewish days begin & end at sunset, which I just googled & found 7:14 PM in New York for April 6, but from Craz's Post #2, Kosher for Pesach ends ~90 minutes later--perhaps when it gets completely dark??
If the plane is on time, it should fly over Illinois about 9 PM CDT.
Brendan is offline  
Old Mar 30, 2010, 10:47 am
  #9  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,431
Originally Posted by Brendan
I want to wish U all a Happy Passover. As a Gentile, I was always told that Jewish days begin & end at sunset, which I just googled & found 7:14 PM in New York for April 6, but from Craz's Post #2, Kosher for Pesach ends ~90 minutes later--perhaps when it gets completely dark??
If the plane is on time, it should fly over Illinois about 9 PM CDT.
Shabbat and other Jewish holidays end at nightfall, when three stars are visible. That is approximately 40 minutes after sunset.
TWA884 is offline  
Old Mar 30, 2010, 2:12 pm
  #10  
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 17,963
Originally Posted by TWA884
Shabbat and other Jewish holidays end at nightfall, when three stars are visible. That is approximately 40 minutes after sunset.
I always look, but I wish I could see three stars from my Chicago downtown high-rise.
iluv2fly is offline  
Old Mar 31, 2010, 10:14 pm
  #11  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Originally Posted by Brendan
I want to wish U all a Happy Passover. As a Gentile, I was always told that Jewish days begin & end at sunset, which I just googled & found 7:14 PM in New York for April 6, but from Craz's Post #2, Kosher for Pesach ends ~90 minutes later--perhaps when it gets completely dark??
If the plane is on time, it should fly over Illinois about 9 PM CDT.
Theres 2 items yur missing; lets go with your 7:14pm (although its a few mins later) although that maybe Sundown when the Sabbath starts it doesnt end at that time but 60-72 mins later here in the US (18 mins in Israel). Then theres extra time added to that as most contracts where chometz (leavend products) were sold dont revert back for alittle while after the Holiday is over.

Thats why 8:46pm comes into play even thou 7:14pm is Sundown
craz is offline  
Old Apr 1, 2010, 5:41 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London uk
Programs: *A Gold, BA Silver, Avis President, Hertz President circle
Posts: 2,804
Originally Posted by iluv2fly
I always look, but I wish I could see three stars from my Chicago downtown high-rise.
You anyway aren't allowed to rely on seeing 3 stars, because the stars have to be medium size stars (which one can't really know what's considered big and what medium), so therefor we rely on the times given by our sages which (according to most poskim) is 60 minutes after sunset (and according to the rabeinu tam 72 min).
ELAL is offline  
Old Apr 1, 2010, 1:12 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: EL AL Matmid, BA Executive Club GfL, GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,074
Originally Posted by ELAL
You anyway aren't allowed to rely on seeing 3 stars, because the stars have to be medium size stars (which one can't really know what's considered big and what medium), so therefor we rely on the times given by our sages which (according to most poskim) is 60 minutes after sunset (and according to the rabeinu tam 72 min).
Even that is not quite correct, as these times are for the equinox. Different times of year and different latitudes can make these times significantly longer.
mikebg is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2010, 1:18 pm
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: UA Million Miler (lite). NY Metro area.
Posts: 15,050
Originally Posted by Brendan
I want to wish U all a Happy Passover. As a Gentile, I was always told that Jewish days begin & end at sunset, which I just googled & found 7:14 PM in New York for April 6
This gets in to another question. Sunset in the metro NY area varies by where you live. If you're out on the east end of Long Island, sunset begins earlier than say Newark New Jersey. The distance of 120 miles will affect things by a few minutes. Several years ago, my Rabbi took exception with a candle lighting calendar my Brotherhood did becuase of this.

To offer my advice to the OPs original question, I'd wait till after sunset (from your departure city). By that time, it will be late into the evening at your arrival city.
dhammer53 is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2010, 10:06 am
  #15  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,228
Thanks for the comments - I've ordered a Kosher meal, which will almost certainly be KFP. Then if they serve warm cookies at the end of the flight (I got upgraded), I'll take them. Not a bad way to end the holiday.
tarheelnj is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.