Sneaky change to 10-across B777
#31
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 842
I agree 100%, the FT community is more aircraft savvy and will be more aware of the product offerings.
#32
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Programs: QR Gold
Posts: 772
Maybe even more; I would think they should have one giant J cabin instead of two, having toilets to the front and back only; no galley in the middle (they could do a 350-style dome in the exits). you can easily fit more people.
#33
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 404
This is perhaps worth debating next to a beer
For now I will give you an example on the economics below. I also prefer 2x8-hr flights over one 12-hour flight, unless flying to South Africa on a night flight.
Furthermore, I concentrate my flying on OW carriers when possible and QR is great in that respect.
This is at least good news, the B788 is simply claustrophobic.
Surely a half day is going to be billed at a higher rate than the Ł200 saved by going through Doh?
I take your points about economics. I agree that people will see the lowest fare on a reputable airline and automatically jump for it. I have done the same.
But then it should come as no surprise then people make the assessment 5*+cheap = no brainer and are then disappointed when it's the same sardine can that everyone else flies. At least Emirate & Virgin ply the consumer with entertainment and branding!
I fully agree with you mate that the average customer can't tell his a**e from his elbow on a plane and I am not arguing with the business case here.
But let's be honest with one another, majority of the people on flyertalk (certainly including me) do not fit the bill of 'most people' or 'the average traveller'.
I personally couldn't care less about the IFE nowadays as I either work, read my kindle or textbooks, or watch something on my iPad. After all these years I travel light (unless switching stations, in which case the excess baggage is paid for by my employer) and can't be bothered with airline food.
I do value the mostly above-par service on QR.
Most of my travel is business and company policy is Y unless there's only a small difference only to W or J, or in case travel is back charged to the client.
I also fly to a lot of African airports where direct flights are not possible (e.g. MPM).
Here's a random 7-day mid-week trip in September LHR-SIN:
You will notice that the BA direct flight is 60% more expensive than QR. Whilst there is a saving of a half day('s work), the cost difference is going to propel many companies to book the cheaper option unless there are other aspects to consider (e.g. having to rock up to a client meeting straight off the plane, etc.).
For now I will give you an example on the economics below. I also prefer 2x8-hr flights over one 12-hour flight, unless flying to South Africa on a night flight.
Furthermore, I concentrate my flying on OW carriers when possible and QR is great in that respect.
This is at least good news, the B788 is simply claustrophobic.
Surely a half day is going to be billed at a higher rate than the Ł200 saved by going through Doh?
I take your points about economics. I agree that people will see the lowest fare on a reputable airline and automatically jump for it. I have done the same.
But then it should come as no surprise then people make the assessment 5*+cheap = no brainer and are then disappointed when it's the same sardine can that everyone else flies. At least Emirate & Virgin ply the consumer with entertainment and branding!
I fully agree with you mate that the average customer can't tell his a**e from his elbow on a plane and I am not arguing with the business case here.
But let's be honest with one another, majority of the people on flyertalk (certainly including me) do not fit the bill of 'most people' or 'the average traveller'.
I personally couldn't care less about the IFE nowadays as I either work, read my kindle or textbooks, or watch something on my iPad. After all these years I travel light (unless switching stations, in which case the excess baggage is paid for by my employer) and can't be bothered with airline food.
I do value the mostly above-par service on QR.
Most of my travel is business and company policy is Y unless there's only a small difference only to W or J, or in case travel is back charged to the client.
I also fly to a lot of African airports where direct flights are not possible (e.g. MPM).
Here's a random 7-day mid-week trip in September LHR-SIN:
You will notice that the BA direct flight is 60% more expensive than QR. Whilst there is a saving of a half day('s work), the cost difference is going to propel many companies to book the cheaper option unless there are other aspects to consider (e.g. having to rock up to a client meeting straight off the plane, etc.).
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DWC
Programs: OWS, *A G
Posts: 626
The management now may be pressured to increase profits and are therefore trying to increase revenues and cut costs. This may cause me to look for a new sweet spot that fits my requirements.
On the other hand, my wife is the perfect "average traveller", despite having lived on four continents and travelled with me to many places. She can barely tell the an A319 and a B747 apart and nor does she care.
Will she notice the difference between 3-4-3 and 3-3-3? not in my lifetime. She will recall the image of QR created by her previous experiences and QR marketing. Brand engagement has worked well on her.
Me? I change banks every 6-12 months and churn credit cards for sign-up bonuses.
Once again, we here are working with a very different benchmark than the average flyer. ^
#35
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Programs: QR Gold
Posts: 772
People must know the reasons behind all of these changes:
The State of Qatar is currently implementing a massive cost-cutting measure caused by the massive drop in oil prices (and revenue). This included staff cutting in the hundreds in many corporations such as oil and gas companies and Qatar Foundation. They realized that throwing money around is perhaps not the best thing to do, since there is not (as) much of it now.
One of the largest companies in Qatar, Qatar Airways is no different. With more than 150 planes in its fleet and expanding, it is no doubt costing the country billions to maintain and operate, and in return getting billions in profits.
With a massive above-budgeted airport, and low-density aircraft, QR must learn to get expand its revenue base. One way to do that is to increase the passenger-load in aircraft by adding more seats. This is true of the A320's, B787, and now the B777.
Honestly I think in 10 years time, QR will reconfigure its A380 to have a smaller bar, or perhaps eliminate the bar, and remove First Class. We will see
I think QR should also seriously start thinking about Premium economy. A good three rows of premium economy is an excellent way to make more money in flights.
The State of Qatar is currently implementing a massive cost-cutting measure caused by the massive drop in oil prices (and revenue). This included staff cutting in the hundreds in many corporations such as oil and gas companies and Qatar Foundation. They realized that throwing money around is perhaps not the best thing to do, since there is not (as) much of it now.
One of the largest companies in Qatar, Qatar Airways is no different. With more than 150 planes in its fleet and expanding, it is no doubt costing the country billions to maintain and operate, and in return getting billions in profits.
With a massive above-budgeted airport, and low-density aircraft, QR must learn to get expand its revenue base. One way to do that is to increase the passenger-load in aircraft by adding more seats. This is true of the A320's, B787, and now the B777.
Honestly I think in 10 years time, QR will reconfigure its A380 to have a smaller bar, or perhaps eliminate the bar, and remove First Class. We will see
I think QR should also seriously start thinking about Premium economy. A good three rows of premium economy is an excellent way to make more money in flights.
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DWC
Programs: OWS, *A G
Posts: 626
I think you are right and it might not even take ten years. Look at EK on that note, they already operate two-class, high-density A388.
#40
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
I'm just an average body person, not muscular, absolutly not fitted like a rugbyman and I can tell you than sitting 10 across makes my shoulders touch my neighbors shoulders almost all the time, which is absolutly unconfortable on a long haul flight. I will now avoid QR B777, crossing finger they don't change equipment between the time of the reservation and the flight (a definitly favorite of QR : QR41 DOH-CDG booked for november was originaly an A380, then swapped for an A330, and swapped again for a B777, fortunatly 9 across on the seat map... until it's swapped with a 10 across one ?) and otherwise would have a good reason to burn some Qmiles for an upgrade.
I will fly (and have) a 3-3-3 UA 777 any day in Y over choosing EK again. Yes, I know UA and others are starting to cram 3-4-3 into 777s; all I can do is research given flights and point out to friends/coworkers choosing their flights to look for the same.
I suspect for those who are bigger, a half inch to inch may not be enough to make them confortable anyway; for others it's noticeably better (I easily feel the extra width in an A32x vs a 737 too, for example)
#41
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 404
People must know the reasons behind all of these changes:
The State of Qatar is currently implementing a massive cost-cutting measure caused by the massive drop in oil prices (and revenue). This included staff cutting in the hundreds in many corporations such as oil and gas companies and Qatar Foundation. They realized that throwing money around is perhaps not the best thing to do, since there is not (as) much of it now.
One of the largest companies in Qatar, Qatar Airways is no different. With more than 150 planes in its fleet and expanding, it is no doubt costing the country billions to maintain and operate, and in return getting billions in profits.
With a massive above-budgeted airport, and low-density aircraft, QR must learn to get expand its revenue base. One way to do that is to increase the passenger-load in aircraft by adding more seats. This is true of the A320's, B787, and now the B777.
Honestly I think in 10 years time, QR will reconfigure its A380 to have a smaller bar, or perhaps eliminate the bar, and remove First Class. We will see
I think QR should also seriously start thinking about Premium economy. A good three rows of premium economy is an excellent way to make more money in flights.
The State of Qatar is currently implementing a massive cost-cutting measure caused by the massive drop in oil prices (and revenue). This included staff cutting in the hundreds in many corporations such as oil and gas companies and Qatar Foundation. They realized that throwing money around is perhaps not the best thing to do, since there is not (as) much of it now.
One of the largest companies in Qatar, Qatar Airways is no different. With more than 150 planes in its fleet and expanding, it is no doubt costing the country billions to maintain and operate, and in return getting billions in profits.
With a massive above-budgeted airport, and low-density aircraft, QR must learn to get expand its revenue base. One way to do that is to increase the passenger-load in aircraft by adding more seats. This is true of the A320's, B787, and now the B777.
Honestly I think in 10 years time, QR will reconfigure its A380 to have a smaller bar, or perhaps eliminate the bar, and remove First Class. We will see
I think QR should also seriously start thinking about Premium economy. A good three rows of premium economy is an excellent way to make more money in flights.
#42
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 404
Neither my work nor my travel time is billed to clients, I am not a consultant. However, my company's client may require me to perform work in a location different then my home station and may pay for the travel expenses.
On one hand I agree with you that QR has represented a value "sweet spot" for the likes of you and me because they offer an above-par (hard) product at a below-average cost. This was surely part of their expansion strategy.
The management now may be pressured to increase profits and are therefore trying to increase revenues and cut costs. This may cause me to look for a new sweet spot that fits my requirements.
On the other hand, my wife is the perfect "average traveller", despite having lived on four continents and travelled with me to many places. She can barely tell the an A319 and a B747 apart and nor does she care.
Will she notice the difference between 3-4-3 and 3-3-3? not in my lifetime. She will recall the image of QR created by her previous experiences and QR marketing. Brand engagement has worked well on her.
Me? I change banks every 6-12 months and churn credit cards for sign-up bonuses.
Once again, we here are working with a very different benchmark than the average flyer. ^
On one hand I agree with you that QR has represented a value "sweet spot" for the likes of you and me because they offer an above-par (hard) product at a below-average cost. This was surely part of their expansion strategy.
The management now may be pressured to increase profits and are therefore trying to increase revenues and cut costs. This may cause me to look for a new sweet spot that fits my requirements.
On the other hand, my wife is the perfect "average traveller", despite having lived on four continents and travelled with me to many places. She can barely tell the an A319 and a B747 apart and nor does she care.
Will she notice the difference between 3-4-3 and 3-3-3? not in my lifetime. She will recall the image of QR created by her previous experiences and QR marketing. Brand engagement has worked well on her.
Me? I change banks every 6-12 months and churn credit cards for sign-up bonuses.
Once again, we here are working with a very different benchmark than the average flyer. ^
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,046
But, it is important to remember that the State of Qatar as a whole profits from it's investment in the national airline. I think this is what QatarA340 was getting at.
#45
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 404
Aside from a few months in 2010 (or 9, I forget), QR was not profitable between 2007 and 2012. As I understand it they are even less profitable today both on a per passenger and per ASK basis than they were back then. This is if you take away the alcohol warehouse and any proprietary trading of course.
But, it is important to remember that the State of Qatar as a whole profits from it's investment in the national airline. I think this is what QatarA340 was getting at.
But, it is important to remember that the State of Qatar as a whole profits from it's investment in the national airline. I think this is what QatarA340 was getting at.
Surely the investments in foreign companies/properties are the key areas, no?