Qatar passenger thrown into Qatari jail for complaining about staff noice
Mar 7, 2012, 10:17 am
#31
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Mar 10, 2012, 7:12 am
#32
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See nothing wrong with a dead-heading captain with a beer in his hands...
Mar 10, 2012, 11:19 pm
#33
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Le Monde is a highly respected daily newspaper in Paris (on a par with the NY Times) and is scrupulous in its avoidance of sensationalism. In the original French text the passenger states that he asked the crew to be quieter and when they failed to do so he threatened to complain upon arrival in Doha. At no time, according to the story in Le Monde, did the passenger M. Thevenin issue any threat to the security of the aircraft or the crew. There may well be another side to this story but Qatar Airways declined Le Monde's offer to tell theirs, as is mentioned at the end of the original article.
The article's mention of the carceral conditions in Doha is entirely relevant to the story (he was after all in jail) - and the ongoing abuse of immigrant minorities by the UAE/Qatar/KSA and others is of concern to every decent person of conscience in the Gulf and elsewhere.
I would add that the passenger in question was only released so expeditiously by the intervention of the French embassy. Qatar has excellent relations with France and does not want them affected by something so minor as this incident. Indeed many members of the Qatari ruling family are eager to live part of the year in France.
The article's mention of the carceral conditions in Doha is entirely relevant to the story (he was after all in jail) - and the ongoing abuse of immigrant minorities by the UAE/Qatar/KSA and others is of concern to every decent person of conscience in the Gulf and elsewhere.
I would add that the passenger in question was only released so expeditiously by the intervention of the French embassy. Qatar has excellent relations with France and does not want them affected by something so minor as this incident. Indeed many members of the Qatari ruling family are eager to live part of the year in France.
The jail conditions in the US are known for being notorious. Men often get raped, bullied, or live in filthy conditions in the US (yes, I saw a documentary in the US cable chanel CNN about it) . Jail is not the St.Regis no matter whether your in Figi, the US, or Brazil. Whatever...
Did you know that Qatar has the regional HQ of the UN center for Human Rights? Did you know that there a "blue-collar" city being set up with cricket-stadiums, cinemas, shops, and other entertainment to cater for their satisfactory life? I assume not... mainly because people in general want to report news that THEY WANT TO SENSATIONALIZE.
There was no 'editorializing' in the story as it appeared in Le Monde. There was a direct quotation from the passenger arrested as to the conditions in jail, which included mention of his cellmates and the reasons for their incarceration. This is in turn was meant to illustrate the occasionally arbitrary nature of the criminal justice system in Qatar, of which much has been written by local and international Human Rights groups including Amnesty International.
It should be noted that this article appeared in Le Monde as part of a special supplement section covering the extraordinary campaign of high profile acquisitions here in France by Qatar's Sovereign Investment Fund and the Emirate's ruling family. The supplement was entitled 'Le Qatar rachète le monde'. In addition to Paris St Germain and numerous commercial properties in central Paris the Emir has bought the Hotel Lambert, generally considered to be the most beautiful 18th century house in Paris.
It should be noted that this article appeared in Le Monde as part of a special supplement section covering the extraordinary campaign of high profile acquisitions here in France by Qatar's Sovereign Investment Fund and the Emirate's ruling family. The supplement was entitled 'Le Qatar rachète le monde'. In addition to Paris St Germain and numerous commercial properties in central Paris the Emir has bought the Hotel Lambert, generally considered to be the most beautiful 18th century house in Paris.
I am not sure why you seem to say Qatari has an arbitary nature of criminal system as if we are living in a jungle or something. Qatar has a constitution and a set of rules illustrating flight saftey. It is not based on some occasionally arbititrary laws.
Sure in the US, OJ Simpson mudered his wife, and he is set free, and you could go on and respond to that. I could spill something else, and I could go ahead--and this could continue on and on and on. Tit for tat wastes my time so Im not going to respond further than this post.
Qatar is famous now; and we can handle critisim. I am responding to the critisim and responding to Qatar haters here in this post.
BTW, Qatar has invested millions to help inpovershed suburbs in Franch. Did you see that??? Did this article mention that??? Of course not.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Q33eDBkaUH-yGA
Welcome to France where in addition to Iran and Saudi Arabia is the only country that imposes a certain dress code for women.
Mar 11, 2012, 5:16 am
#34
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No mention was made of percentage of expat prisoners in Qatar. It was not relevant to the story. Prison conditions are also slightly beside the point. As you have so thoroughly pointed out carceral conditions are dreadful in many countries, including the US and France. This news story however was about Qatar and not the US or France. It may be consoling or distracting to deflect criticism by referring to problems elsewhere but it does not invalidate the initial criticism.
The point is not the arbitrary nature of the LAWS but of their application.
HH The Emir is clearly very enlightened and we look forward to welcoming him again in France very soon.
As I pointed out in an earlier post hyper-sensitivity to any criticism of Qatar is an obstacle to Qatar assuming its rightful place as a regional power of growing importance.
The point is not the arbitrary nature of the LAWS but of their application.
HH The Emir is clearly very enlightened and we look forward to welcoming him again in France very soon.
As I pointed out in an earlier post hyper-sensitivity to any criticism of Qatar is an obstacle to Qatar assuming its rightful place as a regional power of growing importance.
Jul 18, 2012, 1:10 pm
#35
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Qatar Airways - PR disaster
I've been trying to get a response from Qatar Airways about an incident that I read about in a number of places, including on this site and in Le Monde newspaper, here in France where I live.
Early this year a director of an Alliance Française travelling in Business Class was thrown into jail for two days on arrival in Doha because he had the temerity to complain about staff members making a noise whilst everyone was trying to sleep. What's more, one of the staff members concerned was apparently the Captain, who had a beer in his hand and was in the company of female hostesses.
This story worried me because in 2010 we had started using Qatar Business Class for going to Hong Kong from Paris and Casablanca. We always had very positive experiences and I was very surprised by this story. However, no-one from Qatar Airways has ever either denied it or spoken about it to say that the problem was dealt with, that the people concerned were sacked - or that the Alliance Française director was a liar and being sued for defamation. Nothing. Which leads me to be very uneasy. If the story was untrue then the airline should at least deny it. If it was true then they should have taken the necessary steps to reassure their clients that this was a 'rogue' captain who has since been reprimanded or sacked and that no client, whether Business Class or not, risks being sent to jail just because they complain about staff misbehaving.
This was the reassurance I was seeking from Qatar Airways. However, after numerous emails during the last 6 months to which no-one bothered to reply I am forced to the conclusion that the story is true and QA is either so arrogant that they don't care, or so incompetent in PR that they don't realise how much damage this kind of incident can do to their reputation. Therefore neither I, nor anyone connected to me or my company will now be travelling on Qatar Airways until I receive a full assurance from them that not only has this matter been resolved but that no client will again run the same risk.
Early this year a director of an Alliance Française travelling in Business Class was thrown into jail for two days on arrival in Doha because he had the temerity to complain about staff members making a noise whilst everyone was trying to sleep. What's more, one of the staff members concerned was apparently the Captain, who had a beer in his hand and was in the company of female hostesses.
This story worried me because in 2010 we had started using Qatar Business Class for going to Hong Kong from Paris and Casablanca. We always had very positive experiences and I was very surprised by this story. However, no-one from Qatar Airways has ever either denied it or spoken about it to say that the problem was dealt with, that the people concerned were sacked - or that the Alliance Française director was a liar and being sued for defamation. Nothing. Which leads me to be very uneasy. If the story was untrue then the airline should at least deny it. If it was true then they should have taken the necessary steps to reassure their clients that this was a 'rogue' captain who has since been reprimanded or sacked and that no client, whether Business Class or not, risks being sent to jail just because they complain about staff misbehaving.
This was the reassurance I was seeking from Qatar Airways. However, after numerous emails during the last 6 months to which no-one bothered to reply I am forced to the conclusion that the story is true and QA is either so arrogant that they don't care, or so incompetent in PR that they don't realise how much damage this kind of incident can do to their reputation. Therefore neither I, nor anyone connected to me or my company will now be travelling on Qatar Airways until I receive a full assurance from them that not only has this matter been resolved but that no client will again run the same risk.
Jul 18, 2012, 2:23 pm
#36
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This was news 5 months ago on the QR forum. Maybe you'd like to read the previous post...?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...aff-noice.html
We're all entitled to our opinions, but refusing to fly with QR unless you and/or your company receive "full assurance" based on a news article which may or may not include the full facts... Really?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...aff-noice.html
We're all entitled to our opinions, but refusing to fly with QR unless you and/or your company receive "full assurance" based on a news article which may or may not include the full facts... Really?
Jul 22, 2012, 12:13 am
#37
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Jul 22, 2012, 10:21 pm
#38
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I missed the original February posting, and am curious whether anyone has any links to any rebuttal or other follow-up by QR. TIA!
Jul 26, 2012, 1:45 am
#39
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Where is our resident QR lurker/representative AlexCM when we need him ??
Jul 30, 2012, 3:40 pm
#40
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There are valid reasons for unease at this story
This was news 5 months ago on the QR forum. Maybe you'd like to read the previous post...?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...aff-noice.html
We're all entitled to our opinions, but refusing to fly with QR unless you and/or your company receive "full assurance" based on a news article which may or may not include the full facts... Really?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...aff-noice.html
We're all entitled to our opinions, but refusing to fly with QR unless you and/or your company receive "full assurance" based on a news article which may or may not include the full facts... Really?
It may seem disproportionate to you but I've been in many positions where I've witnessed abuse of authority, whether in Britain, mainland Europe or elsewhere, and I don't intend to put either myself, my friends or my business colleagues in danger of that knowingly if it can possibly be avoided. Especially when it involved countries where the dispensation of justice is, at best, random.
Whilst I must emphasise that I've only ever had good experiences with Qatar, it only takes a rogue captain or two or other heavy-handedness from dysfunctional crew members to play havoc with an airline's reputation.
I therefore reiterate that I would like reassurance from the airline that either this matter has been dealt with and how they did so, or else evidence that the entire story was a complete fabrication by Le Monde newspaper - and in which case why hasn't Qatar sued them? Until then, we shall avoid travelling on QA.
Jul 31, 2012, 2:26 am
#41
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xmastree I understand your worries but...
Given you have also seen this "abuse of authority" in Britain, mainland Europe & elsewhere I assume you're avoiding all these countries (in addition to QR) until you receive assurances from their governing bodies it won't happen again? Sorry, but yes, I do believe you're being disproportionate. Many very high standard airlines come from "countries where the dispensation of justice is, at best, random", Qatar is not alone in that respect.
Finally, taking one part of the story, from what I could find there have been no reports of QR Captains being disciplined for drinking on board, either by QR or the FAA. I would have expected to see this as a follow up, especially from Le Monde? I'm no QR apologist by the way, happy to be corrected on the above.
As with all airlines, you pays your money & takes your choice...
It may seem disproportionate to you but I've been in many positions where I've witnessed abuse of authority, whether in Britain, mainland Europe or elsewhere, and I don't intend to put either myself, my friends or my business colleagues in danger of that knowingly if it can possibly be avoided.
Finally, taking one part of the story, from what I could find there have been no reports of QR Captains being disciplined for drinking on board, either by QR or the FAA. I would have expected to see this as a follow up, especially from Le Monde? I'm no QR apologist by the way, happy to be corrected on the above.
As with all airlines, you pays your money & takes your choice...
Aug 1, 2012, 9:42 am
#42
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3 OT comments removed. Lets keep the discussion on topic.
Regards Oliver2002
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Regards Oliver2002
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Aug 1, 2012, 3:49 pm
#43
Join Date: Aug 2012
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"Incidents involving insults or obscene language/gestures often result in arrest, overnight imprisonment and/or fines whether the incident occurs between private parties or involves officers of the law. Insulting someone in public is considered a punishable offense."
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1003.html
"Modern Slavery: The Plight of Foreign Workers in Qatar"
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz22KjahDgb
These types of abuse are common place in Qatar and I doubt the Qataris even know about it--media is controlled there and workers can only leave with an exit visa after they have been cleared by their employers.
I don't know if this specific incident is accurate, but it is certainly plausible.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1003.html
"Modern Slavery: The Plight of Foreign Workers in Qatar"
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz22KjahDgb
These types of abuse are common place in Qatar and I doubt the Qataris even know about it--media is controlled there and workers can only leave with an exit visa after they have been cleared by their employers.
I don't know if this specific incident is accurate, but it is certainly plausible.
Aug 3, 2012, 12:42 am
#44
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"Incidents involving insults or obscene language/gestures often result in arrest, overnight imprisonment and/or fines whether the incident occurs between private parties or involves officers of the law. Insulting someone in public is considered a punishable offense."
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1003.html
"Modern Slavery: The Plight of Foreign Workers in Qatar"
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz22KjahDgb
These types of abuse are common place in Qatar and I doubt the Qataris even know about it--media is controlled there and workers can only leave with an exit visa after they have been cleared by their employers.
I don't know if this specific incident is accurate, but it is certainly plausible.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1003.html
"Modern Slavery: The Plight of Foreign Workers in Qatar"
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz22KjahDgb
These types of abuse are common place in Qatar and I doubt the Qataris even know about it--media is controlled there and workers can only leave with an exit visa after they have been cleared by their employers.
I don't know if this specific incident is accurate, but it is certainly plausible.
Last edited by cblaisd; Aug 4, 2012 at 3:03 pm Reason: Removed personal, off-topic remark
Aug 4, 2012, 3:06 pm
#45
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Alright:
Since four more off-topic and/or personal attacks have had to be deleted, this thread is now closed.
Further such posts WILL entail a vacation from FlyerTalk.
cblaisd
Senior Moderator
Further such posts WILL entail a vacation from FlyerTalk.
cblaisd
Senior Moderator