What is Platinum One really worth? About 1 bottle of champagne...
#31
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
This may all be true...noting in the case of P1 pax, it is the very role of the P1 team to facilitate a solution when things don't run to plan!
#32
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
I would imagine that P1s generally would not expect to be selected for involuntary denial of boarding!
Furthermore, if the P1 team have no power to put in place preferential outcomes for P1 pax, it begs the question what value they do have (over and above the WP / P1 / CL premium booking team)...
#33
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,422
I think it would be very surprising for the airline to deny 4 passengers boarding and have to pay them 200% of the fare in compensation when the P1 member was delayed such that they did not reach gate by required time
At T-15 , any offloading and processing of standby passengers will have had to have been completed. A few minutes later and not only would they have found a closed gate but the airline would have been flying with 4 empty seats whilst paying a large amount of compensation ( 4 * 200% of business class fares is quite a bit )
They were not chosen as ones to be denied just due to oversell, but due to being late at the gate
That the 4 passengers had already been rebooked onto a flight leaving 1 hour later sounds like good service was provided
My understanding (though I could be off the mark) is that to comply with DOT requirements, the airline has to have a defined process of selection of passengers to deny boarding
Anyway, hopefully this has given the passenger a great eye opening to not throwing money at buying status but look at fares/schedules/redemption values etc rather than having a blind loyalty to one airline and one scheme
At T-15 , any offloading and processing of standby passengers will have had to have been completed. A few minutes later and not only would they have found a closed gate but the airline would have been flying with 4 empty seats whilst paying a large amount of compensation ( 4 * 200% of business class fares is quite a bit )
They were not chosen as ones to be denied just due to oversell, but due to being late at the gate
That the 4 passengers had already been rebooked onto a flight leaving 1 hour later sounds like good service was provided
My understanding (though I could be off the mark) is that to comply with DOT requirements, the airline has to have a defined process of selection of passengers to deny boarding
Anyway, hopefully this has given the passenger a great eye opening to not throwing money at buying status but look at fares/schedules/redemption values etc rather than having a blind loyalty to one airline and one scheme
Last edited by Dave Noble; May 15, 2017 at 4:28 pm
#34
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
I think it would be very surprising for the airline to deny 4 passengers boarding and have to pay them 200% of the fare in compensation when the P1 member was delayed such that they did not reach gate by required time..........Anyway, hopefully this has given the passenger a great eye opening to not throwing money at buying status but look at fares/schedules/redemption values etc rather than having a blind loyalty to one airline and one scheme
Yep - saving cash trumps status these days! And so liberating to have the choice between so many airlines!
#35
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,422
Do I understand your point Dave...if the flight was indeed overbooked then surely QF would be potentially liable to pay compensation to a set number of pax in any case.....presumably that compensation payment may not payable in the event QF can counter with the argument the pax were too late board (?)...(hence the practice of selecting late arrivals for off load...?).
If the airline denies boarding to passengers due to oversale on LAX-MEL , it is required to pay passengers 200% the cost of that flight up to a maximum of $1350 see details of 14 CFR 250.5 at https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 )
The passengers arrived at the gate only 15 minutes before departure , by which time Qantas will have had to have processed any passengers still awaiting seat assignments
Looking at business class r/t fares from SYD-LAX , the cost is $10,200 per person. At 200% of the one way journey that would lead to compensation of $1350 to people at that fare
Where a passenger is not at a gate in time ( I know that AA stipulates 30 minutes ) that passenger can be denied boarding without compensation
Would you expect to (a) deny 4 passengers travel and pay $5400 - and likely have 4 empty seats if the connecting passengers were just a few minutes later to the gate or (b) rebook the 4 delayed passengers on a flight 1 hour later and pay zero compensation
#36
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
If (1), then loyalty to QF at P1 level may have value to some;
If (2), then loyalty to QF at P1 level may be reasonably viewed as misplaced;
...given the published benefit for ("pro-")active facilitation to mitigate issues arising affecting P1s' travel.
QF may or may not include in their risk analysis potential loss of business (in the ball park of >AUD100,000 per year) when their actions drive may risk a "loyal" customer seeking competitor product and another or multiple frequent flyer loyalty programs...in this case save up to USD5400, but risk an ongoing USD300,000 worth of annual revenue and dissemination of negative feedback among the P1s' social and corporate peer group.
#37
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,422
With speculation...
I would suspect that P1s would be the least likely to be selected in general
I would suspect that the airline would give longest time possible for a P1 to make a connection without being too late to be able to process standby passengers
I would say that at 15 minutes before departure. I woudl find it very surprising if they hadn't processed the offloading
Also - it may not have been LAX that did it ; it could have been the P1 team actively monitoring the P1 travel that saw the state of connection and took it upon itself to minimise the disruptiuon by booking the BNE flight
What I would never expect is for QF to have passengers standing by for seats and for QF to leave with empty seats on the offchance that the P1 members had got there in the next 5 minutes
Looking at a boarding pass that I have for tomorrow ( not LAX admittedly ) , it states gate closes XX:XX where this is 20 minutes before departure. I doubt very much that the stated time is less than 20 minutes at LAX
I think that anyone blindly paying extra to travel on Qantas to get to P1 status is misguided - the reality is that loyalty is purely one way; QF wants the loyalty of a dog from its members whilst it knows that they are simply one of many in the database to stroke from time to time and tell them how special they are
I would suspect that P1s would be the least likely to be selected in general
I would suspect that the airline would give longest time possible for a P1 to make a connection without being too late to be able to process standby passengers
I would say that at 15 minutes before departure. I woudl find it very surprising if they hadn't processed the offloading
Also - it may not have been LAX that did it ; it could have been the P1 team actively monitoring the P1 travel that saw the state of connection and took it upon itself to minimise the disruptiuon by booking the BNE flight
What I would never expect is for QF to have passengers standing by for seats and for QF to leave with empty seats on the offchance that the P1 members had got there in the next 5 minutes
Looking at a boarding pass that I have for tomorrow ( not LAX admittedly ) , it states gate closes XX:XX where this is 20 minutes before departure. I doubt very much that the stated time is less than 20 minutes at LAX
I think that anyone blindly paying extra to travel on Qantas to get to P1 status is misguided - the reality is that loyalty is purely one way; QF wants the loyalty of a dog from its members whilst it knows that they are simply one of many in the database to stroke from time to time and tell them how special they are
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,518
I think that anyone blindly paying extra to travel on Qantas to get to P1 status is misguided - the reality is that loyalty is purely one way; QF wants the loyalty of a dog from its members whilst it knows that they are simply one of many in the database to stroke from time to time and tell them how special they are
#40
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,419
That isn't unique to P1. FWIW I've only once had a QF points upgrade fail to clear out of many requests.
#41
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SIN
Programs: TK - Gold, Kris - Gold, QFF - Points
Posts: 242
If it was a connecting flight booked via QF wouldn't they have the incoming flight details? the bags would already be checked through and they would know if they were expecting more passengers?
Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
#42
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,422
If it was a connecting flight booked via QF wouldn't they have the incoming flight details? the bags would already be checked through and they would know if they were expecting more passengers?
Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
Choice of having to pay $5400 vs zero ---- can see why they would be chosen , especially given that they only just got there a few minutes before boarding should have been completed. Good chance of having to rebook these 4 , plus have 4 empty seats , plus have to pay out $5400
#43
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 549
I was on a VA flight recently and the cabin crew told me that they were late leaving SYD domestic and the fine was huge. Very strict departure times and what not.
This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,518
I was on a VA flight recently and the cabin crew told me that they were late leaving SYD domestic and the fine was huge. Very strict departure times and what not.
This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
#45
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NSW
Programs: QF P1 + LTG VA Plat, AA nothing, HH Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 764
A bit late to the party here.
It sounds to me as thought the P1 passengers were perhaps rebooked by the SST. I can see why the OP's wife and colleagues were annoyed but with a delayed inbound connection the airline has to try to find a solution to get the passengers to their destination. It's IMHO totally unrealistic to expect a wait and see approach from the airline. I would have rung the SST the minute I knew that my inbound was delayed and given them my preferred options similar to the steps outlined above in one of the replies.
In office hours there's definitely more than one member of the SST on duty. After hours there is only one. My experiences with them in and out of hours (IRROPS and lost baggage) have been positive.
I don't see this experience as poor treatment of P1s. It may not have been the outcome they desired due to them actually just making it to the gate.
The SST should certainly have telephoned them to inform them what was happening and if that didn't happen then that's the element that's a service failure here.
It sounds to me as thought the P1 passengers were perhaps rebooked by the SST. I can see why the OP's wife and colleagues were annoyed but with a delayed inbound connection the airline has to try to find a solution to get the passengers to their destination. It's IMHO totally unrealistic to expect a wait and see approach from the airline. I would have rung the SST the minute I knew that my inbound was delayed and given them my preferred options similar to the steps outlined above in one of the replies.
In office hours there's definitely more than one member of the SST on duty. After hours there is only one. My experiences with them in and out of hours (IRROPS and lost baggage) have been positive.
I don't see this experience as poor treatment of P1s. It may not have been the outcome they desired due to them actually just making it to the gate.
The SST should certainly have telephoned them to inform them what was happening and if that didn't happen then that's the element that's a service failure here.