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What is Platinum One really worth? About 1 bottle of champagne...

What is Platinum One really worth? About 1 bottle of champagne...

Old May 15, 2017, 4:05 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Ausriver
I would say it is more of standard procedure here, well QF was lack of personal touch....just standard procedure, to dump late arrival (especially from a different carrier) pax first. ....
This may all be true...noting in the case of P1 pax, it is the very role of the P1 team to facilitate a solution when things don't run to plan!
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Old May 15, 2017, 4:11 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
I would also doubt that the P1 team would have the authority to tell the US staff to deviate from its procedure for selecting passengers to deny boarding in an oversell situation.
IMHO it wold be surprising if the QF procedures didn't seek to avoid dumping P1 pax in an oversell scenario!

I would imagine that P1s generally would not expect to be selected for involuntary denial of boarding!

Furthermore, if the P1 team have no power to put in place preferential outcomes for P1 pax, it begs the question what value they do have (over and above the WP / P1 / CL premium booking team)...
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Old May 15, 2017, 4:21 pm
  #33  
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I think it would be very surprising for the airline to deny 4 passengers boarding and have to pay them 200% of the fare in compensation when the P1 member was delayed such that they did not reach gate by required time

At T-15 , any offloading and processing of standby passengers will have had to have been completed. A few minutes later and not only would they have found a closed gate but the airline would have been flying with 4 empty seats whilst paying a large amount of compensation ( 4 * 200% of business class fares is quite a bit )

They were not chosen as ones to be denied just due to oversell, but due to being late at the gate

That the 4 passengers had already been rebooked onto a flight leaving 1 hour later sounds like good service was provided

My understanding (though I could be off the mark) is that to comply with DOT requirements, the airline has to have a defined process of selection of passengers to deny boarding

Anyway, hopefully this has given the passenger a great eye opening to not throwing money at buying status but look at fares/schedules/redemption values etc rather than having a blind loyalty to one airline and one scheme

Last edited by Dave Noble; May 15, 2017 at 4:28 pm
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Old May 15, 2017, 5:10 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
I think it would be very surprising for the airline to deny 4 passengers boarding and have to pay them 200% of the fare in compensation when the P1 member was delayed such that they did not reach gate by required time..........Anyway, hopefully this has given the passenger a great eye opening to not throwing money at buying status but look at fares/schedules/redemption values etc rather than having a blind loyalty to one airline and one scheme
Do I understand your point Dave...if the flight was indeed overbooked then surely QF would be potentially liable to pay compensation to a set number of pax in any case.....presumably that compensation payment may not payable in the event QF can counter with the argument the pax were too late board (?)...(hence the practice of selecting late arrivals for off load...?).

Yep - saving cash trumps status these days! And so liberating to have the choice between so many airlines!
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Old May 15, 2017, 6:55 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Platy
Do I understand your point Dave...if the flight was indeed overbooked then surely QF would be potentially liable to pay compensation to a set number of pax in any case.....presumably that compensation payment may not payable in the event QF can counter with the argument the pax were too late board (?)...(hence the practice of selecting late arrivals for off load...?).
Yes - I did make a mistake on the max compesation though - it is only 200% up to max $1350

If the airline denies boarding to passengers due to oversale on LAX-MEL , it is required to pay passengers 200% the cost of that flight up to a maximum of $1350 see details of 14 CFR 250.5 at https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 )

The passengers arrived at the gate only 15 minutes before departure , by which time Qantas will have had to have processed any passengers still awaiting seat assignments

Looking at business class r/t fares from SYD-LAX , the cost is $10,200 per person. At 200% of the one way journey that would lead to compensation of $1350 to people at that fare

Where a passenger is not at a gate in time ( I know that AA stipulates 30 minutes ) that passenger can be denied boarding without compensation

Would you expect to (a) deny 4 passengers travel and pay $5400 - and likely have 4 empty seats if the connecting passengers were just a few minutes later to the gate or (b) rebook the 4 delayed passengers on a flight 1 hour later and pay zero compensation
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Old May 15, 2017, 9:21 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Would you expect to (a) deny 4 passengers travel and pay $5400 - and likely have 4 empty seats if the connecting passengers were just a few minutes later to the gate or (b) rebook the 4 delayed passengers on a flight 1 hour later and pay zero compensation
Thanks...which in turn prompts the question: would QF (1) take into account P1 status or (2) not take into account P1, when faced with such a scenario.

If (1), then loyalty to QF at P1 level may have value to some;

If (2), then loyalty to QF at P1 level may be reasonably viewed as misplaced;

...given the published benefit for ("pro-")active facilitation to mitigate issues arising affecting P1s' travel.

QF may or may not include in their risk analysis potential loss of business (in the ball park of >AUD100,000 per year) when their actions drive may risk a "loyal" customer seeking competitor product and another or multiple frequent flyer loyalty programs...in this case save up to USD5400, but risk an ongoing USD300,000 worth of annual revenue and dissemination of negative feedback among the P1s' social and corporate peer group.
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Old May 15, 2017, 9:44 pm
  #37  
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With speculation...

I would suspect that P1s would be the least likely to be selected in general
I would suspect that the airline would give longest time possible for a P1 to make a connection without being too late to be able to process standby passengers

I would say that at 15 minutes before departure. I woudl find it very surprising if they hadn't processed the offloading

Also - it may not have been LAX that did it ; it could have been the P1 team actively monitoring the P1 travel that saw the state of connection and took it upon itself to minimise the disruptiuon by booking the BNE flight

What I would never expect is for QF to have passengers standing by for seats and for QF to leave with empty seats on the offchance that the P1 members had got there in the next 5 minutes

Looking at a boarding pass that I have for tomorrow ( not LAX admittedly ) , it states gate closes XX:XX where this is 20 minutes before departure. I doubt very much that the stated time is less than 20 minutes at LAX

I think that anyone blindly paying extra to travel on Qantas to get to P1 status is misguided - the reality is that loyalty is purely one way; QF wants the loyalty of a dog from its members whilst it knows that they are simply one of many in the database to stroke from time to time and tell them how special they are
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Old May 16, 2017, 5:32 pm
  #38  
 
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It would be interesting to know what the inbound flight was and the date. I find it very hard to believe QF overlooked by 8 in J on the 94. Something does not make sense here.
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Old May 16, 2017, 6:50 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
I think that anyone blindly paying extra to travel on Qantas to get to P1 status is misguided - the reality is that loyalty is purely one way; QF wants the loyalty of a dog from its members whilst it knows that they are simply one of many in the database to stroke from time to time and tell them how special they are
I recently discussed this very issue with a P1 acquaintance who flies Trans Pacific quite regularly - at least in Biz. He knew there were other (better) programs (notably UA, AS and AA) and potentially better bed/seats on UA and AA. BUT he was not interested in moving away from QF because of his special needs which QF usually accommodated with ease. He also said that it was rare for him not to receive a F Op-Up or points upgrade to F.
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Old May 16, 2017, 10:23 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by og
BUT he was not interested in moving away from QF because of his special needs which QF usually accommodated with ease. He also said that it was rare for him not to receive a F Op-Up or points upgrade to F.
That isn't unique to P1. FWIW I've only once had a QF points upgrade fail to clear out of many requests.
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Old May 22, 2017, 9:38 pm
  #41  
 
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If it was a connecting flight booked via QF wouldn't they have the incoming flight details? the bags would already be checked through and they would know if they were expecting more passengers?

Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
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Old May 22, 2017, 10:08 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ttep
If it was a connecting flight booked via QF wouldn't they have the incoming flight details? the bags would already be checked through and they would know if they were expecting more passengers?

Seems a bit dodgy.. why not put the lower ticket classes on the BNE flight and throw them a $50 voucher...
Because it is not a $50 voucher that they would have to throw, but more like $1350 per person

Choice of having to pay $5400 vs zero ---- can see why they would be chosen , especially given that they only just got there a few minutes before boarding should have been completed. Good chance of having to rebook these 4 , plus have 4 empty seats , plus have to pay out $5400
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Old May 24, 2017, 5:44 am
  #43  
 
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I was on a VA flight recently and the cabin crew told me that they were late leaving SYD domestic and the fine was huge. Very strict departure times and what not.

This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
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Old May 24, 2017, 5:50 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Oneworldplus2
I was on a VA flight recently and the cabin crew told me that they were late leaving SYD domestic and the fine was huge. Very strict departure times and what not.

This could have also played a part in this saga and something which people aren't aware of. To simply blame to airline for not waiting, it's not always a case of "I'm a so-and-so, you must wait for me", there is usually more to the story.
Are you talking about busting the SYD curfew (23:00 - 06:00) or not complying with slot allocation?
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Old May 27, 2017, 8:33 pm
  #45  
 
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A bit late to the party here.
It sounds to me as thought the P1 passengers were perhaps rebooked by the SST. I can see why the OP's wife and colleagues were annoyed but with a delayed inbound connection the airline has to try to find a solution to get the passengers to their destination. It's IMHO totally unrealistic to expect a wait and see approach from the airline. I would have rung the SST the minute I knew that my inbound was delayed and given them my preferred options similar to the steps outlined above in one of the replies.
In office hours there's definitely more than one member of the SST on duty. After hours there is only one. My experiences with them in and out of hours (IRROPS and lost baggage) have been positive.

I don't see this experience as poor treatment of P1s. It may not have been the outcome they desired due to them actually just making it to the gate.
The SST should certainly have telephoned them to inform them what was happening and if that didn't happen then that's the element that's a service failure here.
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