BrooklynDave

Planning a big Aussie trip for October. Sadly, it doesn't look like we can swing QF First (just too expensive), or even AA First (which doesn't seem like that big an improvement over J anyway on the 77W).

We need at least Business due to my size (6'7"). So it looks like the most economical way is AA Business round trip JFK-SYD on AA, and then take QF internally in Australia (SYD-CNS, CNS-MEL).

We could return MEL-JFK via LAX on QF metal on a codeshare with AA. But it costs about 800-900 more each, which seems excessive. So we're thinking of getting an early morning MEL-SYD flight (I can deal with coach for that short a flight).

I've never been to the SYD airport before and know nothing about it. What would be a reasonable amount of time to allow to change from the MEL-SYD flight to the international SYD-LAX?

Will they leave from separate terminals?

Will they check the bags through to the AA flight? AA is a QF partner, of course, but I don't know if they would or not. If not, obviously we'd need more time.

I'm looking at 1H50m as a possible window. Enough time?

Secondly, if I can get what I want with AA trans-Pacific, will they book the internal QF flights also, and/or would it even make any sense to do that rather than just booking with QF directly?

Thanks for your help!

Dave Noble

If you choose to book 2 separate tickets, then you will be acceptinh the risks of missing flights; the airlines' responsibility for you is only for the separate trips

As such, leave plenty of time between flights. 1hr 50 would be fine if on a single ticket, but on 2 tickets, you will have to collect the bags at Sydney, tale the train or bus to Terminal 1 and then check in for the AA flight - the bags will not be checked through

Also be aware that the baggage allowance in economy on the domestic flight will be different to that of AA at 1 piece of 23Kg l vs 2 pieces of max 32Kg per piece

I wouldn't allow less than 3 hours where separate tickets are involved.

Looking at listed fares, AA does offer through fares to Cairns. It looks like you could do JFK-SYD - stopover - SYD-CNS and then return CNS-MEL - stopover - MEL-JFK for approx $750 extra on the base fare over just booking JFK-SYD r/t in I class. It would be $600 extra with no stopover in Sydney. USD600 plus taxes is more than economy fares of SYD-CNS-MEL-SYD will cost, but will (a) be in business class and (b) will have no issues with luggage allowance and risks of missed connections

In this case 1hr 50 would be fine , though if there is I class available on the MEL-LAX flight, you could happily bypass Sydney and the terminal switching altogther and go directly to Los Angeles from Melbourne

Given that AA does offer fares to CNS, I do not think it likely that you will be able to piece together a mix of fares, but AA's business class fares do allow end on end ticketing

Kiwi Flyer

1:50 is nowhere near enough for domestic to international at SYD on separate tickets. The SYD terminals are some distance apart - you need to allow 30+ minutes for the Qantas bus ride (if no checked bags) or public bus/train (if checked bags are not through tagged) between them (allowing for frequency and ride time).

Then you still have check in, immigration and security, and allowance for the domestic flight potentially arriving late.

lokijuh

Given the AA flight for LAX departs at 10:15 am come October, you'd want to be on the 6am flight (arriving 7:25) if you were to even to attempt this connection on separate tickets. As it is first flight out, it tends to have good degree of reliability.

However that means a very early start, and unless you have something specific on in MEL, probably better to travel up to SYD the night before and spend the night at an airport hotel to have a more relaxed morning before the flight.

BrooklynDave

That is most helpful, thank you. Was planning to do business SYD-CNS and CNS-MEL, but didn't know AA would offer through fares with a stopover. Is 5 days (in Sydney) okay for a stopover?

Dave Noble

yes, not a problem

Given the prices for business class domestically, this will also likely make it a cheaper trip over separate tickets

Just doing a check on ITA, in I class using AA to Sydney and from Melbourne and QF for the flights to CNS with stopovers in Sydney and Melbourne, the fare is coming in at $6,764.26 including taxes ( fare basis I1X5A8R1 ) whilst a simple r/t to Sydney will cost $6905 including taxes ( fare basis ILW0Z8M1 ) - so is actually cheaper to book through to cains

Just look for flights with I class availability and I suspect that you will need to book over the phone with AA or use a travel agent. the AA website is not the best in the world for this

BrooklynDave

I'm looking on aa.com as we speak, and tried two ways: first I tried JFK-CNS one way and it came back as over $8,500 one way (!). So I tried doing multi-city, JFK-SYD, SYD-CNS, CNS-MEL, and MEL-JFK, and couldn't get anything to come up at all, even though I chose "all day" and "all airlines" from the pulldown menus.

Obviously, I'm doing something wrong. I don't see a box to check or anything for "stopovers." Is there a better way than aa.com? I'm not familiar with ITA. A quick google search brought up Matrix/ITA flight search. Is this what you're referring to? I've never seen this before - sorry for my ignorance! But that's why I'm here, and I appreciate the help.

It says " Note: Tickets cannot be purchased directly from ITA Software.

If you find a fare you like, you can give the information from this site to your travel agent or airline when making a booking. " So is this what you mean? And then I'd have to call AA when I find that info?

Dave Noble

matrix.itasoftware.com is the site


I did it by putting "AA+" as the routing code for JFK-SYD and for MEL-JFK

I left the routing codes blank for the other flights

I also used weekday flights on AA

I can get the price to show on ITA using

2/10/17 JFK-SYD AA+
21/10/17 SYD-CNS
24/10/17 CNS-MEL
31/10/17 MEL-JFK AA+

and asking for business class or higher and
unchecked the "show only flights with available seats"

To put a routing code in , in the Departing from box for JFK-SYD type JFK::AA+

This shows the lowest fare for the dates chosen. You then need to use it with the "show only flights with available seats" checkded to find fares that are available on specific desired days - or use Expert Flyer to search for flights with availabiltty


Once you have found flights that have availbility at fare wanted on ITA, then pick up the phone and call AA

BrooklynDave

Awesome! That is so helpful. I was looking myself just now and couldn't find quite what I wanted (the ones that came up at the $6800 fare only gave one night in CNS, but I didn't know about the AA+ coding). I'll try again and keep digging around. Thank you so much.

Mwenenzi

Look here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ocean...nnections.html

AA & QF no longer through check baggage on separate itineraries. Open the wiki in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...d-threads.html

BrooklynDave

I've been digging for a while now, and so far for fares under $8,500, I either can't get more than one night in CNS, or the internal Aussie flights aren't non-stop, or both. I can put in exact dates to get the number of nights I want in each city, but either it's much more expensive than the $6800, or the internal Aussie flights aren't direct, or both.

The latter kind of mystifies me. When I check off "no extra stops" or put an N in the routing code for SYD-CNS or CNS-MEL, it comes up with "no flights found." Then I look at Qantas's site, and nonstops are indeed available for business. I take off that restriction on Matrix.ita and flights come up, but only SYD-MEL-CNS and CNS-SYD-MEL, which I don't understand. Especially since when I check for non-stops on business on Matrix.ita itself (as just regular one-way searches, not in the multi-city), they show up (?!)

I've never been to this site before. Is it something likely to change there, i.e. today it's not showing any direct SYD-CNS flights in the multi-city/AA+ configuration, but tomorrow (or next week) it might? Or if it's not there today, is it not going to be there ever?

Dave Noble

If you can find the fare without travelling non stop, I would be inclined to hold that for now and then speak to an agent about availability on the non stops. travelling SYD-MEL-CNS may be a bit of a pain, but seems a worthwhile sacrifice for a large fare reduction

If you get yourself a trial subscription to Expert Flyer, you may be able to hunt for flights with the appropriate availability more easily

BrooklynDave

Okay! Thanks to everyone's help, I was able to get something very nice.

Further digging on matrix.itasoftware.com kept giving me the same problem: either fares about $2,000 more than what Dave Noble showed, or non-direct flights within Australia, or no itinerary that would allow more than one night in Cairns, or some combination of the three. I did get a trial subscription on Expert Flyer, and there were plenty of seats available on direct flights from SYD-CNS and CNS-MEL, so I didn't get it.

So how did I solve it? By not trying to return home from MEL, and by taking people's advice on the original topic of this thread, and seeing what would happen if we flew into SYD (from MEL) the night before we went home, so we wouldn't have to worry about a tight connection at SYD (including changing terminals) and seeing if treating it as a round-trip JFK-SYD would help.

All of a sudden, magically, the direct SYD-CNS and CNS-MEL flights were there! And we could get them the exact days and times we wanted. And the price was just as it should have been - actually $6,763.76 - beatcha' by 50 cents, Dave Noble!

Near as I can figure, AA is treating this as a round trip JFK-CNS, with one stop over (SYD) on the inbound, and two stopovers (MEL and SYD) on the return. That's what the coding would seem to indicate too.

So both problems solved - we get the exact itinerary we want, at a rate nearly comparable to a simple JFK-SYD round trip, traveling business on all flights within Australia... AND don't have to worry about tight connections at SYD going home. Plus we return on AA metal, which most people seem to think has a better bed than the QF in business from MEL.

Many thanks to the folks who set me straight about trying to connect at SYD, and especially to Dave Noble for cluing me in to some resources I'd never heard of. This Dave thanks you!

Kiwi Flyer

A great outcome. Thanks for letting us know how it worked out BrooklynDave ^

vbroucek

Big cheers for knowledge of the community here...