QF12 from JFK to LAX always late. What is going on with this flight?
Dec 25, 2015, 12:52 am
#16
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This would have to be a single ticketed itinerary since there is no chance that would have been able to book just JFK-LAX as a standalone flight on QF I would suspect
The OP's best move, I would suggest, is to try and get AA to rebook onto AA for the domestic leg or purchase a ticket to LAX and drop the domestic leg from the booking
Dec 25, 2015, 12:59 am
#17
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
That would be ideal, however OP already said they had tried to change that and AA wasn't playing nice.
Dec 25, 2015, 1:12 am
#18
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The main issue I see though is the chance of missing the flight on TN onwards and , if it was me, If AA has no availability then I would buy a ticket to LAX on the cheapest carrier rather than risking connections on the day
Dec 25, 2015, 3:33 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 284
There's a month and a half until our departure, so I'm going to try calling AA again.
And again. And again.....as necessary.
I think I have a more compelling case now. Last time I just said QF12 is usually late, I think I'm going to miss my connection.
I tried twice. One agent was totally unsympathetic. Another wanted to help, and disappeared for 15 minutes to talk to his superiors. He said they just wouldn't open up the seats right now - because the flight could still be on time.
One of the good things about AA is that you can make unlimited changes to award tickets as long as the origin and destination remain the same - free of charge. While availability is bad for JFK-LAX nonstops, periodically connecting flights will show up (PHX, DFW, ORD). Just yesterday there were 2 seats via PHX, but those are gone now. (We are a party of 4 - so that wouldn't have worked). Obviously, I'd prefer a nonstop, but connecting domestically is far better than routing 2,194 extra miles via Australia.
If we waited until the day of travel, even if we got to the airport when the Qantas desk opened several hours before the 6 pm departure, we might have difficulty getting to LAX in time for the 11:30 Tahiti Nui flight. An AA nonstop would obviously do the trick, but if those are sold out (which is entirely possible around President's Day) we might have trouble getting to LAX in time via a connecting flight.
Luckily for us, the onward Air NZ tickets we purchased are fully refundable - we bought flexi plus tickets to give us flexibility for unforseen contingencies.....though we were actually thinking about the possibility of a February snowstorm in the US interfering with our plans.
And again. And again.....as necessary.
I think I have a more compelling case now. Last time I just said QF12 is usually late, I think I'm going to miss my connection.
I tried twice. One agent was totally unsympathetic. Another wanted to help, and disappeared for 15 minutes to talk to his superiors. He said they just wouldn't open up the seats right now - because the flight could still be on time.
One of the good things about AA is that you can make unlimited changes to award tickets as long as the origin and destination remain the same - free of charge. While availability is bad for JFK-LAX nonstops, periodically connecting flights will show up (PHX, DFW, ORD). Just yesterday there were 2 seats via PHX, but those are gone now. (We are a party of 4 - so that wouldn't have worked). Obviously, I'd prefer a nonstop, but connecting domestically is far better than routing 2,194 extra miles via Australia.
If we waited until the day of travel, even if we got to the airport when the Qantas desk opened several hours before the 6 pm departure, we might have difficulty getting to LAX in time for the 11:30 Tahiti Nui flight. An AA nonstop would obviously do the trick, but if those are sold out (which is entirely possible around President's Day) we might have trouble getting to LAX in time via a connecting flight.
Luckily for us, the onward Air NZ tickets we purchased are fully refundable - we bought flexi plus tickets to give us flexibility for unforseen contingencies.....though we were actually thinking about the possibility of a February snowstorm in the US interfering with our plans.
Last edited by Mr. S; Dec 25, 2015 at 4:53 am
Dec 25, 2015, 12:35 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 284
Update: 1st call to AA to try to re-book different JFK-LAX flight - no luck
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
Dec 25, 2015, 12:40 pm
#21
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
Update: 1st call to AA to try to re-book different JFK-LAX flight - no luck
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
Dec 25, 2015, 12:57 pm
#22
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
Update: 1st call to AA to try to re-book different JFK-LAX flight - no luck
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.....unless saver award seats are available.
Maybe QF will let you travel and all will be sweet, but I would look at ensuring to have backup plans. If getting to AKL as planned - if award availability on AA doesn't open, I would seriously consider removing the JFK-LAX flight from the booking and booking a separate ticket for that . Alternatively, you may find that you end up delayed getting to Auckland if no other flight to get you to LAX that day in time for the TN flight
Dec 25, 2015, 1:14 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 284
It's a double whammy.
If Qantas lets me board, then I have to worry about QF 12's chronic delays.
If I were to cancel the JFK-LAX leg I would incur change fees - 4 X $150 + the cost of 4 one-way tickets from JFK-LAX - also another 4 X $150-$200.
If Qantas lets me board, then I have to worry about QF 12's chronic delays.
If I were to cancel the JFK-LAX leg I would incur change fees - 4 X $150 + the cost of 4 one-way tickets from JFK-LAX - also another 4 X $150-$200.
Dec 25, 2015, 1:31 pm
#24
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
I don't see that the potential delays are much to worry about at all, you have so long between the flights
The worrying thing is only the being allowed to board the QF flight I would say
Check whether you can drop the 1st sector of the award without penalty - I know that in some cases AA permits that without a $150 fee
The worrying thing is only the being allowed to board the QF flight I would say
Check whether you can drop the 1st sector of the award without penalty - I know that in some cases AA permits that without a $150 fee
Dec 25, 2015, 1:54 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 284
Update 2: Success!!! AA is re-booking us on a new AA flight from JFK-LAX.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
Dec 25, 2015, 2:02 pm
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Update 2: Success!!! AA is re-booking us on a new AA flight from JFK-LAX.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
Dec 25, 2015, 2:09 pm
#27
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
Update 2: Success!!! AA is re-booking us on a new AA flight from JFK-LAX.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
I could tell I had a good agent....she searched the fine print and found the text that says that Qantas does not allow passage on this flight unless you are flying to Australia. She said the ticket should never have been booked as is, and that they would make this right for us.
Bottom Line: They are going to put us on an earlier AA flight from JFK to LAX. While there is nothing available at a saver level, they are talking to revenue management to open up space for us.
Thank you Dave Noble, elitetraveler, and Himeno for bringing this to my attention and for your helpful suggestions.
Dec 25, 2015, 7:04 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Update: 1st call to AA to try to re-book different JFK-LAX flight - no luck
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.
According to AA, the ticket is 100% legal. They said that both Qantas and Air Tahiti Nui had to approve of the routing for this itinerary to have been ticketed. Since it got ticketed, it's therefore legal and they can't change it.
Good to see that AA fixed it.
It gets quite annoying at times that QF will allow something like QF93 MEL-LAX, stopover, QF11 LAX-JFK, but won't allow something like CX898 HKG-LAX connecting to QF11 even though DOT rules say it's fine.
Dec 25, 2015, 8:05 pm
#29
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
The issue with this flight seems to be that the auto ticketing systems see that it is part of an international itinerary = meets DOT rules = valid route = ticket. The computer doesn't also check the extra notes on the flight and see that QF won't allow it without a QF flight to/from Australia. It's why so many people get QF LAX-JFK ticketed, then get moved to AA when a QF agent looks at it in person.
Good to see that AA fixed it.
It gets quite annoying at times that QF will allow something like QF93 MEL-LAX, stopover, QF11 LAX-JFK, but won't allow something like CX898 HKG-LAX connecting to QF11 even though DOT rules say it's fine.
Good to see that AA fixed it.
It gets quite annoying at times that QF will allow something like QF93 MEL-LAX, stopover, QF11 LAX-JFK, but won't allow something like CX898 HKG-LAX connecting to QF11 even though DOT rules say it's fine.
Dec 25, 2015, 10:20 pm
#30
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Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,589
That is a direct result of UA filing numerous complaints with DOT for every connecting pax that QF carried even though they knew the complaint was invalid, but it would cost QF too much to defend it. Very sad that some airlines conduct business this way. I make a point of avoiding flying on UA because of this predatory behaviour.