pandaperth

And the Woolworths/Qantas VISA card recently changed its T&Cs to charge tit as well

Awesom Andy

The selection only appears after the credit card number has been entered, as an additional line in the web page - very easy to miss.

MChevreul

Dave,

First, as others have correctly pointed out, although a few banks waive or discount their FTFs on incoming transactions, the large majority don’t: the buyer pays *both* the DCC fee and the credit card’s own FTF.

Second, if I understand you correctly, that Qantas presents a difficult-to-notice window in which DCC is checked by default and it is up to the buyer to check the other options, it is a blatant violation of several Visa rules:

*The offer must be “clear and conspicuous”

*An “active choice” by the buyer is required; the vendor is specifically barred from checking the accept checkbox by itself;

*Any method that requires the buyer to “opt out” of DCC is prohibited,

*Vendor may “NOT impose any additional requirements on the Cardholder to have the Transaction processed in the local currency”

*Vendor may “NOT use any language or procedures that may cause the Cardholder to choose Dynamic Currency Conversion by default.”

Unfortunately the OP is basically SOL, if he files a chargeback for the conversion Visa will probably just give it to him for goodwill, make a note that he is a troublesome customer, and Qantas will never know anything about it.

og

Can you please expand on the "troublesome customer". Is this an industry "black list" that people can find themselves on? If it is indeed a "list", can be shared across institutions and used to favour / unfavourable customers? What sort of additional things does someone have to do to get on the list - or indeed be removed from the list?

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I can confirm the additional charge by ANZ.

Purchased from a HK based company on line. It was marketing to Australia and showed priced only in AUD. Charge came through as AUD+surcharge.

However ANZ was pretty good about it - they refunded the few extra dollars on the spot during my phone call to them.

MChevreul

I have no information about this, and how the credit card companies rate their cardholders is known to be complex. I surmise that if one uses obscenities to or otherwise behaves inappropriately to the CSR, or is constantly quibbling over small matters, this is likely to be held against one in one way or another. I further surmise that requesting chargebacks that are so small that the company will simply honor them at its own expense without bothering the merchant, is another way to annoy the company.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

DCC is interesting. Apparently in China (where the practice is common), the 'profit' is shared between the merchant and the bank. Don't know exactly how it works in other countries, but assume there is some split between the two of them.

The only person that generally (not always) loses is the customer.

I don't think catching out the merchant and/or the bank and complaining is going to get a bad mark against your name. Of course one should never use obscenities.

kyanar

Actually, Visa will do no such thing. Your interactions would be with your bank, who will handle the customer interaction, chargeback process, and decision. They certainly aren't going to "make a note that you're a troublesome customer" because you're their customer, and you give them money.

There is a specific chargeback code for transactions where DCC was improperly offered, and actually charging back against this code would attract the attention of Visa - not against the customer, but the merchant. They are not fond of merchants fostering distrust in the system by breaking the rules.

MChevreul

There are several examples of issuers refusing to chargeback on flyertalk, e.g.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...n-rates-7.html
(cardholder who is sick and tired of being force-DCCd in Ireland and jumps through lots of hoops to get other vendors to withdraw it, pulls the same stunt at a Burger King on a transaction of about $10; they refuse to back off, so he files a chargeback for 45 cents. The card issuer, as I said, simply issued a 45-cent credit and refused to make the chargeback. Burger King and Visa never even knew it happened.

And yes, I definitely assume, without personal knowledge, that raising a big issue over 45 cents would get this guy a negative notation in the issuer's file.

percysmith

Qantas did some Javascript coding to opt you into DCC once it detects you're paying with a non-EU card. I managed to get opted in using a HKD card:

(Original price) http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito..._480742249.jpg
(DCC opted in - I didn't select it) http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito..._744282399.jpg

This is non-compliant with the VIOR http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...er-thread.html which states merchants shouldn't opt people in. OP can charge back Qantas based in these screenshots.

Kremmen

This makes sense in this scenario, because Amex doesn't allow DCC at all. The simplest way to avoid the DCC scam is to use Amex.

One you have been DCC'd, enter a Reason Code 76 chargeback with your bank. (My experience with Chase in the USA was that they simply issued a credit of the difference within a day or two. Other banks may behave differently, of course.)

Dave Noble

I don't think I would be trying to use an FT thread as evidence to support a claim

Also, "shouldn't" doesn't have the same meaning as "must not"

I would be wanting some definitive statement from the card company

kiwicanuck

To add clarity Visa's customers are the Issuing and Acquiring banks and in some large cases the merchants. The card holder is simply a member of the 5 party payments ecosystem. Due to Know your customer regulations neither Visa or MasterCard wants a direct customer relationship with a card holder

percysmith

Maybe different in OP's jurisdiction but in HK the definitive statement from the card companies is to go to hell with chargebacks. Until we start writing to the HK Monetary Authority stating the relevant parts of the Visa International Operating Regulations/Mastercard Chargeback Guide the bank should have complied with. In the case of VIOR, being (page 462) (Visa used must not BTW):

(Failure to comply with this means OP can ask bank to chargeback under Reason Code 76. Any reluctance on the bank's part should be taken up with regulator.)

kyanar

The regulator won't care. The operating rules set by the acquiring networks is not law, merely a contract between the network and the issuer. You need to contact the network (Visa, MasterCard, Diner's Club, American Express, Discover) with your complaint.