Lounge access via another OW member status when crediting flights to QF FF
Jul 16, 2015, 12:47 am
#31
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That would seem to be a reasonable solution (discussion of Ts and Cs aside).
Jul 16, 2015, 5:05 am
#32
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
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Yes, clearly they're "tightening up on it" but the question is whether they're now applying rules that were ignored before, or whether they've changed the rules. If it's the former, well, so be it, but if it's the latter, they haven't advertised any change and are being misleading.
The website advice doesn't specify that using an EK Gold card (or a OW Sapphire/Emerald card) is only allowed if the corresponding FF program is on the BP. For example, the access eligibility at SYD domestic is:
I have an Emirates Gold. My flight was operated by Qantas with a QF flight number (and was not to the Americas or South Africa.) Class of travel didn't enter into it (I wasn't accessing the lounge as a J/F passenger), QC membership doesn't come into it (I'm no longer a QC member) and my EK FF Membership tier is Gold. One could, by twisting the language, infer that "membership tier for next onward flight" means "have the EK membership tier (and number) on the BP for the next onward flight" but that's not actually what it says. TBH the footnote is badly written and I suspect the phrase "for your next onward flight" is actually meant to modify "class of travel"
Here's what it says for OW Sapphire and Emerald:
So for OW there is not even the twisted logic of "membership tier for next onward flight." There is nothing here at all to even hint that a OW Sapphire/Emerald needs to have their OW FF number on the BP. This is clearly misleading!
The website advice doesn't specify that using an EK Gold card (or a OW Sapphire/Emerald card) is only allowed if the corresponding FF program is on the BP. For example, the access eligibility at SYD domestic is:
I have an Emirates Gold. My flight was operated by Qantas with a QF flight number (and was not to the Americas or South Africa.) Class of travel didn't enter into it (I wasn't accessing the lounge as a J/F passenger), QC membership doesn't come into it (I'm no longer a QC member) and my EK FF Membership tier is Gold. One could, by twisting the language, infer that "membership tier for next onward flight" means "have the EK membership tier (and number) on the BP for the next onward flight" but that's not actually what it says. TBH the footnote is badly written and I suspect the phrase "for your next onward flight" is actually meant to modify "class of travel"
Here's what it says for OW Sapphire and Emerald:
So for OW there is not even the twisted logic of "membership tier for next onward flight." There is nothing here at all to even hint that a OW Sapphire/Emerald needs to have their OW FF number on the BP. This is clearly misleading!
If what you have experienced is the norm, they should update the website to make that clear.
Sorry, I'm genuinely confused by this. Who pays QF for points if the flight is credited to QF? Isn't it the other way around; if the flight is credited to QF, QF pays QFFF for the points, but if not credited to QF, QF pays nothing? In any case QC was trying to get me to NOT credit to QF.
From what I have been told by QF, the carrier pays QF for the points that are credited to QF. So, if QF membership is used as a basis of entering a lounge, then QF will have to pay for your lounge use but QF get paid for QF points awarded to you by the carrier.
If the flight is credited to EK, QF pays EK for their frequent flyer points awarded to you, but they get to charge EK for your QF lounge use.
If you use the EK card to enter the lounge without means of recording it properly (I don't think they do manual records any more at domestic QF lounges? I haven't seen them in any case), QF can't record the flight
If you use EK card to enter the lounge while you have your QF membership number associated with the booking, it may be that they can't bill EK for the lounge use and they will still have to give you the points and use the SC towards your QF status (which I suspect might be what they were referring to as double-dipping).
Another possibility is that EK refuses to pay QF for lounge access unless the flight is credited to EK and therefore QF is charged for EK points awarded to you.
All speculations but just wondering if that's what's happening here.
But as noted above I've used EK before without having the EK number or having my EK card scanned. In fact, I confirmed (at the PER QC) that my EK card ALONE would be sufficient for lounge access before I let my QC membership lapse.
While OW arrangements seem to be fairly relaxed on 'double membership situation' (I often enter with membership crossover but both are Oneworld Emerald (QF Platinum and BA Gold) so maybe that's part of it), maybe they are more strict with EK. It's possible that EK has been strict with QF members and QF has tightened up as well.
Jul 18, 2015, 11:30 pm
#34
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Domestically at QF lounges, the staff at entry have never scanned my boarding pass or asked for a card where the appropriate status shows.
OTOH, at international lounges, the boarding pass (mine and Mrs WF's, if traveling) has always been scanned. And I did manage to gain entrance to the SYD lounge for a CX SYD-HKG (CX Silver at the time) with my QF SG card. I didn't have the normal CX lounge invite since I had checked in with QF in AKL. Though I suppose one could have been obtained at the transfer desk (Speaking of which, is there one and if so where at SYD?). In any event the entry people took note of my flight and card details.
So I will speculate that QF wears the cost of operating the domestic lounges for everyone who has proper OW (or EK) status. Given the overwhelming majority of people would be QFF members, the costs of strict enforcement might very well be more than the earnings, to say nothing of the ill will that would be generated with customers (after all they will be flying QF) and the partner airlines. Internationally, the additional revenue would cover the costs of the more strict checking.
Feel free to disagree and resume happy wandering
Fred
OTOH, at international lounges, the boarding pass (mine and Mrs WF's, if traveling) has always been scanned. And I did manage to gain entrance to the SYD lounge for a CX SYD-HKG (CX Silver at the time) with my QF SG card. I didn't have the normal CX lounge invite since I had checked in with QF in AKL. Though I suppose one could have been obtained at the transfer desk (Speaking of which, is there one and if so where at SYD?). In any event the entry people took note of my flight and card details.
So I will speculate that QF wears the cost of operating the domestic lounges for everyone who has proper OW (or EK) status. Given the overwhelming majority of people would be QFF members, the costs of strict enforcement might very well be more than the earnings, to say nothing of the ill will that would be generated with customers (after all they will be flying QF) and the partner airlines. Internationally, the additional revenue would cover the costs of the more strict checking.
Feel free to disagree and resume happy wandering
Fred
Jul 21, 2015, 11:17 pm
#35
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Not as confusing at the lounge access and FF point rules.
If you use EK card to enter the lounge while you have your QF membership number associated with the booking, it may be that they can't bill EK for the lounge use and they will still have to give you the points and use the SC towards your QF status (which I suspect might be what they were referring to as double-dipping).
While OW arrangements seem to be fairly relaxed on 'double membership situation' (I often enter with membership crossover but both are Oneworld Emerald (QF Platinum and BA Gold) so maybe that's part of it), maybe they are more strict with EK. It's possible that EK has been strict with QF members and QF has tightened up as well.
So I will speculate that QF wears the cost of operating the domestic lounges for everyone who has proper OW (or EK) status. Given the overwhelming majority of people would be QFF members, the costs of strict enforcement might very well be more than the earnings, to say nothing of the ill will that would be generated with customers (after all they will be flying QF) and the partner airlines. Internationally, the additional revenue would cover the costs of the more strict checking.
Jul 22, 2015, 3:58 am
#36
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
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(I'd better remember to have it changed to the QF number as the earn on QF flights on BA membership is a lot poorer than when credited to QF.)
Jul 22, 2015, 7:31 am
#37
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I'll do an experiment next time I fly QF domestic in Y. I am QF Platinum but I'll put my BA membership number into the booking and see if they scan/record it at a domestic lounge.
(I'd better remember to have it changed to the QF number as the earn on QF flights on BA membership is a lot poorer than when credited to QF.)
(I'd better remember to have it changed to the QF number as the earn on QF flights on BA membership is a lot poorer than when credited to QF.)
Jul 22, 2015, 5:47 pm
#38
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Jul 26, 2015, 7:39 am
#39
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In May I had my QFF details removed and AB details added at check-in for SYD-SIN, which was a surprise as it was the first time this happened. But from reading this thread it seems this is being enforced across the board.
Jul 26, 2015, 7:35 pm
#40
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One can hope that using a QFF card with status at the lounge entrance will continue to be permitted when flying in the USA and crediting to AA (or other OW airlines).
Historically the only airline which had a (rumored) mechanism for actually using both FQTV and FQTS was Cathay Pacific. Apparently a result of the earning of status with one and mileage/point credit with the other between CX and BA.
Happy wandering
Fred
Historically the only airline which had a (rumored) mechanism for actually using both FQTV and FQTS was Cathay Pacific. Apparently a result of the earning of status with one and mileage/point credit with the other between CX and BA.
Happy wandering
Fred
Jul 26, 2015, 8:45 pm
#41
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Agreed. It's the non-QF cards (OW, EK) that they scrutinize more closely.
Jul 26, 2015, 10:29 pm
#42
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If I have my Qantas number in the booking, they'll just take a cursory look at the boarding pass and wave me through, and if I insist on using the BA card for lounge entry while crediting to QF and having my QF number in the booking, they'll look at me like I have two heads because there is no reason to do it at all (because both are OWE) and will probably get annoyed with me for causing them extra work unnecessarily.
If I had been QF Gold, I should be able to do a valid experiment if I try to gain domestic business lounge access on the basis of BA number while crediting to QF. Not that I intend to drop a level just for the sake of an experiment
With BA number in my booking, I can at least see if they will scan the boarding pass (e.g. so that they can bill BA for my lounge access). With Qantas Platinum number in the booking, they never scan my boarding pass at the lounge entrance.
Jul 27, 2015, 12:05 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2007
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The purpose is to see whether they scan the boarding pass if I don't have a Qantas number in the booking, not whether I gain entry or not (because either number will allow me to enter the lounge).
If I have my Qantas number in the booking, they'll just take a cursory look at the boarding pass and wave me through, ...
With BA number in my booking, I can at least see if they will scan the boarding pass (e.g. so that they can bill BA for my lounge access).
If I have my Qantas number in the booking, they'll just take a cursory look at the boarding pass and wave me through, ...
With BA number in my booking, I can at least see if they will scan the boarding pass (e.g. so that they can bill BA for my lounge access).
When I used to wave my QC membership card (or until recently, my EK Gold card), they never even looked at my BP. After all, in SYD (and MEL? PER?) you can enter the domestic QC without a BP, and then check in (or get the BP printed/re-printed) at a different desk once inside. In CBR the same person controls access and does the check-in, so I guess that would be more difficult
My test next time will be to just show my EK card and explain that I'm getting the BP inside. And then see if the check-in person throws me out.
Sep 12, 2016, 5:24 am
#45
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Which airline are you travelling on and which lounge do you want to access?