Qantas award on EK

Old Aug 24, 2014, 9:59 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
1300 scheduled arrival, with a 50 minute delay gives me a new scheduled arrival time of 1350.
Not really. Even before the aircraft arrived in SYD it would've had an updated arrival time into AKL...and that arrival time would be taking into account the anticipated duration of the flight. Clearly on the day, the actual operational specifics could be taken into account rather than the published schedule.
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 11:16 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
you cannot evidence the passenger would have made the connection in advance of departure from SYD. you could only do that after the event, and that may have been too late.
It is only When a passenger HAS misconnected that an airline is required to rebook them; not in anticipation that the person may miss it

MCT is irrelevent to this; MCT only details what length of time an airline requires the connection time to be for the airline to accept the booking and the liabilities associated with it
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 12:11 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
It is only When a passenger HAS misconnected that an airline is required to rebook them; not in anticipation that the person may miss it

MCT is irrelevent to this; MCT only details what length of time an airline requires the connection time to be for the airline to accept the booking and the liabilities associated with it
MCT is relevant pre-journey in the sense that if the amended transit time is illegal then it is the ticketing airline's job to reschedule the passenger.

Once the journey has started then it is the operating airline's job to protect the passenger.

Last edited by percysmith; Aug 25, 2014 at 12:19 am
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 12:18 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
MCT is relevant pre-journey in the sense that if the amended transit time is illegal then it is the ticketing airline's job to reschedule the passenger.

Once the journey has started then it is the operating airline's job to fix protect the passenger.
Indeed. The MCT is relevant in ticketing. Should a schedule change cause an illegal connection time, then there is responsibility of the airline that had the schedule change to rebook the passenger . The airline did not change its schedule, the flight departure was just delayed

As far as service delays occur, MCT is irrelevant; what matters is whether the passenger actually misses a connection. If the passenger misses a connection , then the airline that caused the misconnection is required to re-accommodate the passenger

Some airlines do do this in advance and there are ( as mentioned above ) cases of wailing and nashing of teeth and complaints that the airline should not have done it since the passenger would have got to gate in time
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 12:26 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by wheresmybagba
Not really. Even before the aircraft arrived in SYD it would've had an updated arrival time into AKL...and that arrival time would be taking into account the anticipated duration of the flight. Clearly on the day, the actual operational specifics could be taken into account rather than the published schedule.
I agree. However I'm inclined to think the 1320 arrival time was not anticipated or communicated to the OP in SYD otherwise they would have been told 'you have one hour to make your connection, there is no need to worry'.

Obviously EK didn't think they'd arrive at 1320, or there wouldn't have been a problem (unless the OP has left that out of the story, which is possible)
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 12:52 am
  #51  
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Did EK announce a flight delay before departure? QF's obligations to rebook depends on whether such a delay has been announced or not.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 12:57 am
  #52  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
Did EK announce a flight delay before departure? QF's obligations to rebook depends on whether such a delay has been announced or not.
QF isn't the airline obligated to assist when it is a delay to the service.

If Emirates changes its schedules and creates an invalid connection time in the schedule them Emirates should rebook automatically and , if that is not acceptable, then may be up to Qantas ( as the travel agent ) to assist

Qantas is simply a travel agent selling a ticket for travel on EK/FJ and has no more responsibility than any other travel agent
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 1:07 am
  #53  
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I'm trying to relate the cases to my own experience.

With my CTS-HND/NRT-HKG example, JL (as operating carrier) rescheduled (well in advance of departure date), but CX felt obligated to assist. So I cannot agree with your assertion "If Emirates changes its schedules and creates an invalid connection time in the schedule them Emirates should rebook automatically". Unless CX and QF's CoCs are drastically different.

OP isn't exactly the same as my case though - he has IRROP affecting estimated departure not scheduled departure. But still some time ahead of the commencement of his journey. Ticketing airline's problem or operating carrier's problem?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 1:09 am
  #54  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
Did EK announce a flight delay before departure? QF's obligations to rebook depends on whether such a delay has been announced or not.
As far as I've been told (by United and Cathay), once you are at the airport and have checked-in, the operating carrier is responsible. In this case, if the OP had checked-in EK should be the ones helping, although it couldn't hurt to also contact QF to see what they can do.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 1:10 am
  #55  
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It is never the ticketing airline's problem in the same way that it would not be Flight Centre's problem if it was a booking made with Flight Centre

QF is simply acting as a travel agent

The operating carrier of the affected flight is always the one responsible for handling the issue. Where a schedule change occurs, then the travel agent may need to reissue the ticket and for this they are responsible but it is the operating carrier's responsibility to get passenger to their destination

It is no different in AU than it is in the EU - for EU rules that spell it out have a look at the EU261 regulation
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 2:23 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
It is never the ticketing airline's problem in the same way that it would not be Flight Centre's problem if it was a booking made with Flight Centre

QF is simply acting as a travel agent
But even a TA (Flight Centre) has to issue tix on someone's stock. Isn't the TA an agent of the issuing airline?

I have a revenue tix in front of me, issue by my Hong Kong TA (not the airlines directly).

HKG-CTS on CX580 (stopover)
CTS-NGO on JL3106 (a JAL Express flight, not a codeshare)
(connecting to) NGO-HKG on CX539

Issuing airline: "CATHAY PACIFIC"
One ticket number 160 xxxxxxxxx (CX e-ticket code)
Two PNRs, one CX/3xxxxx one JL/Exxxxx

Suppose JL3106 is rescheduled, before start of travel.
Obviously I expect a call from my TA, but *who actually has the liability to fix the problem*?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 3:19 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
But even a TA (Flight Centre) has to issue tix on someone's stock. Isn't the TA an agent of the issuing airline?

I have a revenue tix in front of me, issue by my Hong Kong TA (not the airlines directly).

HKG-CTS on CX580 (stopover)
CTS-NGO on JL3106 (a JAL Express flight, not a codeshare)
(connecting to) NGO-HKG on CX539

Issuing airline: "CATHAY PACIFIC"
One ticket number 160 xxxxxxxxx (CX e-ticket code)
Two PNRs, one CX/3xxxxx one JL/Exxxxx

Suppose JL3106 is rescheduled, before start of travel.
Obviously I expect a call from my TA, but *who actually has the liability to fix the problem*?
the operating airline will fix the schedule change, but whoever issued the ticket will need to revalidate or reissue. If you are unhappy with the change, or want a different option, you will be left to speak to your travel agent to fix it. That's when airlines roll out the 'oh, this is with the travel agent we can't speak to you' line.

FWIW I think the approach where airlines won't touch tickets issued by agents is pure rubbish and has little relevance in today's world with the internet. If a consumer has paid for their ticket, why should the airline care who fixes any resulting problems? Why should they deny speaking to a passenger?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 4:30 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
the operating airline will fix the schedule change, but whoever issued the ticket will need to revalidate or reissue. If you are unhappy with the change, or want a different option, you will be left to speak to your travel agent to fix it. That's when airlines roll out the 'oh, this is with the travel agent we can't speak to you' line.

FWIW I think the approach where airlines won't touch tickets issued by agents is pure rubbish and has little relevance in today's world with the internet.
Well we deal with airlines and TAs as we find them.

Had Flight Centre issued the SYD-AKL-NAN ticket then my first response is to contact them (if they have not contacted me of their own accord). I don't understand how Dave Noble can claim Flight Centre need not be in the loop in the case of delayed estimated departure before scheduled departure.

Not sure if issuing carrier (QF) has to be in the loop, or whether TA can contact operating carrier directly and revalidate or reissue the amended booking.

I just remembered we seem to have gone through a lot of these arguments before: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qanta...ncelled-2.html - Dave asserting it's not the TA (QF)'s problem but you asserting it is QF's responsibility to reissue (I agree with you here).
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 4:46 am
  #59  
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If it's a reschedule before the flight is under airport control, or before the passenger has checked-in, it is generally down to the issuing airline or travel agent as far as I understand. That's when we get the line from the operating carrier 'oh, we can't touch this'.

After airport control or check-in, it is the operating carrier.

We see this time and time again with Thai Airways on award tickets... they have a schedule change and misconnect the passenger, but when the passenger calls thai, they refer us back to the award issuer (US airways or united etc). The passenger can be caught in limbo if they don't know how to handle it.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 7:11 am
  #60  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
If it's a reschedule before the flight is under airport control, or before the passenger has checked-in, it is generally down to the issuing airline or travel agent as far as I understand. That's when we get the line from the operating carrier 'oh, we can't touch this'.
The general rules are no different to those detailed in EU261 which clearly highlights the operating carrier's responsibility

Where a carrier makes a change to a schedule it is required to rebook the passenger. the only thing the travel agent is responsible for is revalidating the ticket if necessary


Originally Posted by percysmith
I just remembered we seem to have gone through a lot of these arguments before: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qanta...ncelled-2.html - Dave asserting it's not the TA (QF)'s problem but you asserting it is QF's responsibility to reissue (I agree with you here).
It is not the TA's problem indeed; if it is a published schedule change that causes a need for the operating carrier to rebook the passenger, then it may not be possible for the operating carrier to reissue/revalidate the ticket which is where the TA comes in

If it is just a delayed flight then the TA has no involvement
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