QF 32 - Engine Exploded? (General discussion of the events)
Nov 4, 2010, 8:25 pm
#151
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Consider that the crew were bombarded with 54 "urgent system failure" error messages, as the A380's computers detected serious problems with system after system. Luckily QF had some very senior pilots on board (including 3 captains in the cockpit). Big kudos for the pilots' actions.
Consider the scope of the failures as it now appears from the web info:
- fuel tank leak from the wing, based on photos and inside passenger video (taken from a seat behind the wing).
- leading edge devices not working (shown on landing),
- loss of power control of engine #1 (the "undamaged" engine),
- only half the spoilers deployed on landing (from video),
- landing gear doors did not retract, and indications of loss of at least one of the hydraulic systems.
- skin damage on the top wing surface (which is the largest single structure in an airplane ever built -- will be interesting to see how it is repaired).
Could it have gotten much worse and still been controllable? I think these passengers were pretty lucky.
No wonder QF has grounded the whole A380 fleet, this was a very serious event for reasons that are considered to be extremely rare events. But the A380 survived with aplomb -- the design and redundant systems worked. Airbus can consider this incident to be a success; the nacelle manufacturer (Aircelle) and RollsRoyce are probably quite worried at this point; both seem to be out of spec, to say the least.
I guess QF won't be accepting delivery of their 7th and 8th A380 on schedule, later in 2010.
Nov 4, 2010, 8:27 pm
#152
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How come no one raises any questions with QF maintenance practices? It's very well possible they might have something to do with this.
IMO QF's grounding of the type is to proactively shift the blame on to Airbus and RR before anything else.
IMO QF's grounding of the type is to proactively shift the blame on to Airbus and RR before anything else.
Nov 4, 2010, 8:31 pm
#153
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Nov 4, 2010, 8:43 pm
#154
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Not sure of the mood in Australia, but judging by Stuff news website here in New Zealand, both the crew onboard and QF are being praised for handling the situation very well.
Qantas Pilot Praised After Mid-Air Drama
Qantas Pilot Praised After Mid-Air Drama
Nov 4, 2010, 9:06 pm
#155
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The problems have been with the RR engines and therefore it is highly unlikely the A380 will be gone for good. If there is a major problem with the RR engines then RR will find any problem and change them. If not then I imagine customers will choose to have GE engines on their A380's.
Airbus has invested too much money in the A380 to ever consider stopping production!
Airbus has invested too much money in the A380 to ever consider stopping production!
Nov 4, 2010, 9:30 pm
#156
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Because QF has no role in the maintenance of the RR engines -- that is "outsourced" to RR, with all maintenance including monitoring engine performance being RR responsibility as part of the purchase contract. So QF maintenance is never touching these engines -- they're only allowed to fix the recline button on the F seats
TONY JONES: Now, that's an interesting factor because Qantas engineers have actually come out tonight and said they've had serious concerns with the A380 and that they've seen, "Horrid results from maintenance in overseas facilities." Are you aware of these concerns from your Qantas engineers?
BARRY JACKSON: Look, we are concerned about offshore maintenance.
We have 110 per cent confidence in our own maintenance engineers to make sure the aircraft is serviceable, and I don't know the history of this engine and where it was serviced, but I do believe it was in Frankfurt recently, but I can't comment about the maintenance on those engines and who carried out the maintenance itself.
TONY JONES: Just in general, the engineers are talking about a whole series of incidents, including a 747 with three engines that weren't bolted on correctly, tyre blowouts on an A380 due to brake problems. I mean, are these maintenance concerns passed on to the pilots? Are you aware of them?
BARRY JACKSON: Look, there have been those issues in the past. When we accept aeroplanes we do assume a level of maintenance, and as Qantas pilots, we accept that the aircraft are maintained to a Qantas standard.
As I said before, we're concerned about the offshoring of maintenance of our aircraft and this specific one I don't know exactly where it was.
Unfortunately we've had a very - we haven't had a good run of late. We had one recently earlier this year which is not good, but handled well. But, yeah, it is a bit of a concern.
BARRY JACKSON: Look, we are concerned about offshore maintenance.
We have 110 per cent confidence in our own maintenance engineers to make sure the aircraft is serviceable, and I don't know the history of this engine and where it was serviced, but I do believe it was in Frankfurt recently, but I can't comment about the maintenance on those engines and who carried out the maintenance itself.
TONY JONES: Just in general, the engineers are talking about a whole series of incidents, including a 747 with three engines that weren't bolted on correctly, tyre blowouts on an A380 due to brake problems. I mean, are these maintenance concerns passed on to the pilots? Are you aware of them?
BARRY JACKSON: Look, there have been those issues in the past. When we accept aeroplanes we do assume a level of maintenance, and as Qantas pilots, we accept that the aircraft are maintained to a Qantas standard.
As I said before, we're concerned about the offshoring of maintenance of our aircraft and this specific one I don't know exactly where it was.
Unfortunately we've had a very - we haven't had a good run of late. We had one recently earlier this year which is not good, but handled well. But, yeah, it is a bit of a concern.
Nov 4, 2010, 9:47 pm
#157
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 202
From PPRune
Damage to VH-OQA includes:
Engine 2 Intermediate Pressure Turbine (IPT) disk failure.
Extensive damage to the Engine 2 strut and wing panels
Minimum repair:
replace both #1 and #2 engines, replace/repair #2 strut, wiring repairs, repair to damaged wing panels.
Looks like Nancy will be spending a fair while in SIN.
Damage to VH-OQA includes:
Engine 2 Intermediate Pressure Turbine (IPT) disk failure.
Extensive damage to the Engine 2 strut and wing panels
Minimum repair:
replace both #1 and #2 engines, replace/repair #2 strut, wiring repairs, repair to damaged wing panels.
Looks like Nancy will be spending a fair while in SIN.
Nov 4, 2010, 10:01 pm
#158
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
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As a passenger booked to fly QF Economy next Sunday from MEL-LAX on the A380, I can say I have absolute confidence in the safety of Qantas. This union-bashing of QF has been going on for a long time. It is my understanding that Lufthansa Technik recently performed a C-check of VH-OQA and that RR is responsible for the maintenance of the engines. As someone who has travelled to Germany several times to visit friends, I believe that Lufthansa Technik's reputation would be at the top of the game.
To think that Qantas should maintain the ability to do heavy maintenance on a new aircraft type, they currently fly 6 A380s, until the size of the fleet increases does not make economic sense. As a dual-citizen of US-Australia, I have been flying trans-Pacific for almost 25 years. My economy ticket for next weeks' flight is the cheapest (slightly over $AUD 1K) fare I have ever paid for a return flight. To me this represents great value partly due to the economics of the A380. Last year I flew VH-OQA MEL-LAX and would not hesitate to fly on that aircraft again. I think QF should be applauded for taking the conservative approach to wait until more details of the failure are known before continuing A380 flights.
To think that Qantas should maintain the ability to do heavy maintenance on a new aircraft type, they currently fly 6 A380s, until the size of the fleet increases does not make economic sense. As a dual-citizen of US-Australia, I have been flying trans-Pacific for almost 25 years. My economy ticket for next weeks' flight is the cheapest (slightly over $AUD 1K) fare I have ever paid for a return flight. To me this represents great value partly due to the economics of the A380. Last year I flew VH-OQA MEL-LAX and would not hesitate to fly on that aircraft again. I think QF should be applauded for taking the conservative approach to wait until more details of the failure are known before continuing A380 flights.
Nov 4, 2010, 11:30 pm
#159
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Hi
I would be interested to know from someone here why the aircraft had to dump fuel before landing? Doesn't that take up valuable time that could have helped the aircraft reach safety quicker? (or were the reports of fuel dumping incorrect?)
I know aircraft have max landing weights, but the fuel carried for a SIN-SYD flight would be less than half required for the LHR-SIN leg - so wouldn't the aircraft have been light enough?
And even if it wasn't quite light enough - can overweight landings be attempted? I know there is an increased risk of damage to the airframe landing heavy - but isn't damage and repair predferable to potentially saving lives?
Can understand dumping fuel if it was a contained failure etc etc, but this looked pretty bad.
I would be interested to know from someone here why the aircraft had to dump fuel before landing? Doesn't that take up valuable time that could have helped the aircraft reach safety quicker? (or were the reports of fuel dumping incorrect?)
I know aircraft have max landing weights, but the fuel carried for a SIN-SYD flight would be less than half required for the LHR-SIN leg - so wouldn't the aircraft have been light enough?
And even if it wasn't quite light enough - can overweight landings be attempted? I know there is an increased risk of damage to the airframe landing heavy - but isn't damage and repair predferable to potentially saving lives?
Can understand dumping fuel if it was a contained failure etc etc, but this looked pretty bad.
Nov 4, 2010, 11:31 pm
#160
Company Representative - Qantas Airways
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: Qantas Airways
Posts: 72
We have issued an updated press release.
Originally Posted by Qantas
Qantas Update on QF32 and Qantas A380 Operations
Sydney, 05 November 2010
UPDATED 2.00PM 5 NOVEMBER 2010 The Qantas B747-400 dispatched as a relief flight last night to Singapore to bring passengers affected by yesterday's QF32 engine failure was scheduled to depart Singapore at 10.30am local time. QF8032 is expected to arrive in Sydney at 8.45pm tonight.
Qantas continues to provide assistance to customers affected by the temporary suspension of A380 operations, including hotel accommodation, where needed, and meals, as arrangements are made to get people on flights as soon as possible. All available Qantas aircraft capacity is being used and the airline is also in discussions with other carriers regarding aircraft charter options in addition to the QF10 charter listed below.
Qantas continues to work with Rolls-Royce and Airbus to fully understand the circumstances surrounding the engine failure ahead of taking the first steps toward to resuming operations. It is still too soon to be able to provide an indication of when this might be.
The ATSB investigation is in its early stages and Qantas will work closely with the Bureau to ensure the industry benefits from a detailed understanding of what caused the incident.
More than 70 Qantas international flights, serviced by other fleet types, will operate into and out of Australia today as scheduled. Qantas A380s typically operate 50 departures each week out of more than 600 departures per week.
Flight update:
* Today's QF93 service (Melbourne-Los Angeles), normally operated by an A380, has been delayed by 24 hours
* QF12 and QF108 (both Los Angeles-Sydney) and QF94 (Los Angeles-Melbourne) have also been delayed by 24 hours. These flights were scheduled to depart Los Angeles on 4 November local
* QF11 (Sydney-Los Angeles) and QF31 (Sydney-London via Singapore) will operate to schedule, with B747-400 aircraft replacing A380 aircraft
* QF10 (London-Singapore) on 5 November will be operated by a B777 aircraft chartered from British Airways. A decision will be made later this morning regarding customers with onward travel to Melbourne
Every effort has been made, and will continue to be made, to contact customers regarding the flight changers that may affect them.
Background Information on QF32
A Qantas A380 aircraft operating QF32 from Singapore to Sydney experienced an engine issue soon after take off and returned to Singapore.
The aircraft had 440 passengers and 26 crew on board. In line with procedure, the pilot sought priority clearance for its return to Singapore. The aircraft landed safely at 11.45am local time.
Some media reports suggested the aircraft had crashed. These reports are incorrect. No Qantas aircraft has crashed. There were no injuries to any customers or crew.
Qantas has commenced its own investigations into how the incident occurred. The Australian Transport safety Bureau (ATSB) was notified immediately and Qantas will work with the Bureau as it investigates the issue.
In accordance with its commitment to the highest safety standards, Qantas yesterday suspended scheduled A380 operations until sufficient information had been obtained about what occurred on the QF32 aircraft.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5029d)
Sydney, 05 November 2010
UPDATED 2.00PM 5 NOVEMBER 2010 The Qantas B747-400 dispatched as a relief flight last night to Singapore to bring passengers affected by yesterday's QF32 engine failure was scheduled to depart Singapore at 10.30am local time. QF8032 is expected to arrive in Sydney at 8.45pm tonight.
Qantas continues to provide assistance to customers affected by the temporary suspension of A380 operations, including hotel accommodation, where needed, and meals, as arrangements are made to get people on flights as soon as possible. All available Qantas aircraft capacity is being used and the airline is also in discussions with other carriers regarding aircraft charter options in addition to the QF10 charter listed below.
Qantas continues to work with Rolls-Royce and Airbus to fully understand the circumstances surrounding the engine failure ahead of taking the first steps toward to resuming operations. It is still too soon to be able to provide an indication of when this might be.
The ATSB investigation is in its early stages and Qantas will work closely with the Bureau to ensure the industry benefits from a detailed understanding of what caused the incident.
More than 70 Qantas international flights, serviced by other fleet types, will operate into and out of Australia today as scheduled. Qantas A380s typically operate 50 departures each week out of more than 600 departures per week.
Flight update:
* Today's QF93 service (Melbourne-Los Angeles), normally operated by an A380, has been delayed by 24 hours
* QF12 and QF108 (both Los Angeles-Sydney) and QF94 (Los Angeles-Melbourne) have also been delayed by 24 hours. These flights were scheduled to depart Los Angeles on 4 November local
* QF11 (Sydney-Los Angeles) and QF31 (Sydney-London via Singapore) will operate to schedule, with B747-400 aircraft replacing A380 aircraft
* QF10 (London-Singapore) on 5 November will be operated by a B777 aircraft chartered from British Airways. A decision will be made later this morning regarding customers with onward travel to Melbourne
Every effort has been made, and will continue to be made, to contact customers regarding the flight changers that may affect them.
Background Information on QF32
A Qantas A380 aircraft operating QF32 from Singapore to Sydney experienced an engine issue soon after take off and returned to Singapore.
The aircraft had 440 passengers and 26 crew on board. In line with procedure, the pilot sought priority clearance for its return to Singapore. The aircraft landed safely at 11.45am local time.
Some media reports suggested the aircraft had crashed. These reports are incorrect. No Qantas aircraft has crashed. There were no injuries to any customers or crew.
Qantas has commenced its own investigations into how the incident occurred. The Australian Transport safety Bureau (ATSB) was notified immediately and Qantas will work with the Bureau as it investigates the issue.
In accordance with its commitment to the highest safety standards, Qantas yesterday suspended scheduled A380 operations until sufficient information had been obtained about what occurred on the QF32 aircraft.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5029d)
Nov 4, 2010, 11:38 pm
#161
Company Representative - Qantas Airways
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Conscious that press information can be lengthy in threads, so am posting a link here.
Qantas Refutes Engineers' Union Claims
Qantas Refutes Engineers' Union Claims
Nov 4, 2010, 11:43 pm
#162
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+1
Conscious that press information can be lengthy in threads, so am posting a link here.
Qantas Refutes Engineers' Union Claims
Qantas Refutes Engineers' Union Claims
He addressed the union's claims directly, and while offshore processing is used time and time again by the union, the fact remains that the investigation is incomplete, and trying to make such claims discredits them immensely.
Nov 4, 2010, 11:51 pm
#163
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The release squarely takes aim at Mr. Purvenas:
...
“Regardless, Steve Purvinas continues to peddle prejudices and generalisations about aircraft maintenance and safety in the knowledge that his claims will more than likely go unchallenged. ...
“Regardless, Steve Purvinas continues to peddle prejudices and generalisations about aircraft maintenance and safety in the knowledge that his claims will more than likely go unchallenged. ...
Nov 5, 2010, 12:05 am
#164
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 19
Firstly, I just wanted to say that Im glad everyone onboard, crew and passengers are okay and congratulations to the crew for doing such an outstanding job landing and aircraft and comforting passengers.
Having flown Qantas on most business and leisure flights in my life time I must say I have my utmost confidence in Qantas, especially in their customer service and safety.
Im also impressed that Qantas took charge and grounded all its a380s instead of waiting for other to do the same. Also impressed with the fact that they are providing assistance to customers affected by the a380s suspensions by providing hotel accommodation, meals and travel arrangements.
Whilst Im uncertain from what I have read I dont believe Qantas is directly responsible for this incident - as they do not maintain the engines (RR does) and that Lufthansa Technik have completed the most recent checks on the engines involved.
Having flown Qantas on most business and leisure flights in my life time I must say I have my utmost confidence in Qantas, especially in their customer service and safety.
Im also impressed that Qantas took charge and grounded all its a380s instead of waiting for other to do the same. Also impressed with the fact that they are providing assistance to customers affected by the a380s suspensions by providing hotel accommodation, meals and travel arrangements.
Whilst Im uncertain from what I have read I dont believe Qantas is directly responsible for this incident - as they do not maintain the engines (RR does) and that Lufthansa Technik have completed the most recent checks on the engines involved.
Nov 5, 2010, 12:23 am
#165
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If the cause turns out to be specific to OQA then the just-completed C-check by LH will become quite an issue. Best case the C-check procedure for type is revised, worst case the fleet is grounded until a revised C-check is done for all planes. The whole point of C-checks is to find and pre-empt the kind of catastrophic failure that occured here (even if it is a design fault). Right now Airbus is in big trouble even if they are not at fault, as the maintenance program for A380 can be called into question (which generally results in the type certificate being pulled by the FAA, so A380s would not be allowed to fly in US airspace).