Cabotage QF 107/108
Oct 31, 2009, 5:05 am
#1
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Cabotage QF 107/108
Simple question:
Fly AU - LAX on QF - possible to then take the 107/8 v.v with break of journey on east coast? Or in the opposite journey - will be on same PNR.
Cheers
David.
Fly AU - LAX on QF - possible to then take the 107/8 v.v with break of journey on east coast? Or in the opposite journey - will be on same PNR.
Cheers
David.
Oct 31, 2009, 3:30 pm
#3
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You are allowed a stopover in LAX in either direction (or both), as long as the fare allows it. Only 1 leg has to be on QF trans-pacific (so you could fly SYD-LAX-JFK-HKG-SYD for example, with JFK-HKG on CX, and still be allowed to fly QF LAX-JFK -- far nicer than the AA J service, despite this being the super-good J route for AA).
Oct 31, 2009, 5:09 pm
#4
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QF107 and QF108 operate as a domestic leg within the US between LAX and JFK. On a return flight say SYD-JFK generally u r allowed a stopover and to fly the domestic leg on a different day.
Nov 1, 2009, 6:35 am
#5
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Nov 1, 2009, 11:50 am
#6
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Dave
Nov 2, 2009, 3:10 am
#7
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Wasn't it here discussed not a long time ago that before that some corporate travel agencies in NYC booked JFK-LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK on QF? The passengers would then throw away the LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK segments, but would experience a purely domestic flight on a Boeing 747-400 with PTV (and lie flat beds in Business) and service.
This was apparently done in light of some very good Economy and Business special fares on the route JFK-AKL.
I think some corporate travel departments, who arrange for corporate contracts with airlines, asked American Airlines specifically, when they will finally install Lie Flat seats in Business and fly the Boeing 747-400 on the domestic route as their competitor Qantas does.
This was apparently done in light of some very good Economy and Business special fares on the route JFK-AKL.
I think some corporate travel departments, who arrange for corporate contracts with airlines, asked American Airlines specifically, when they will finally install Lie Flat seats in Business and fly the Boeing 747-400 on the domestic route as their competitor Qantas does.
Nov 2, 2009, 4:42 am
#8
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Wasn't it here discussed not a long time ago that before that some corporate travel agencies in NYC booked JFK-LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK on QF? The passengers would then throw away the LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK segments, but would experience a purely domestic flight on a Boeing 747-400 with PTV (and lie flat beds in Business) and service.
This was apparently done in light of some very good Economy and Business special fares on the route JFK-AKL.
I think some corporate travel departments, who arrange for corporate contracts with airlines, asked American Airlines specifically, when they will finally install Lie Flat seats in Business and fly the Boeing 747-400 on the domestic route as their competitor Qantas does.
This was apparently done in light of some very good Economy and Business special fares on the route JFK-AKL.
I think some corporate travel departments, who arrange for corporate contracts with airlines, asked American Airlines specifically, when they will finally install Lie Flat seats in Business and fly the Boeing 747-400 on the domestic route as their competitor Qantas does.
AA has operated international config 777s and 763s on US domestic routes for years and continues to do so (albeit not on JFK-LAX, but JFK-SFO has had 763 operated flights for months at times). So flat and level beds are not a novelty for AA domestic routes. As for operating 744s, that is presently prohibited by AA's pilot contract. Otherwise AA could codeshare on QF107/108 and sell it domestically
Nov 2, 2009, 4:55 am
#9
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mmmm. Intersesting replies.. 
Cheers
Don't know about AA selling CodeShare, wouldn't this break the Cabotage rule?
As QF gets the money - a non US carrier.
AA can't sell flights exclusively in Australia operated by QF on codeshare (or can they?)
I was suprised by the travel agent thread. Surely QF would cancel that PNR unless fare conditions allowed for no shows (unlikely, especially on sale).
QF would just cancel and invoice the TAs especially if it breached Cabotage?/??
Sorry AA, but your domestic offering won't beat the QF JFK-LAX product - EVER.
Departing LAX T4 vs TBIT / Departing JFK T7 vs T8
I'll stop here before making people angry...
Thanks. Food for thought.
David.
CheersDon't know about AA selling CodeShare, wouldn't this break the Cabotage rule?
As QF gets the money - a non US carrier.
AA can't sell flights exclusively in Australia operated by QF on codeshare (or can they?)
I was suprised by the travel agent thread. Surely QF would cancel that PNR unless fare conditions allowed for no shows (unlikely, especially on sale).
QF would just cancel and invoice the TAs especially if it breached Cabotage?/??
Sorry AA, but your domestic offering won't beat the QF JFK-LAX product - EVER.
Departing LAX T4 vs TBIT / Departing JFK T7 vs T8
I'll stop here before making people angry...
Thanks. Food for thought.
David.
Nov 2, 2009, 6:13 am
#10
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In general, once a passenger's itinerary includes an international flight, cabotage is no longer an issue.
Nov 2, 2009, 7:03 am
#11
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I understand, if someone buys Delta LAX-CVG-BOS but throws away the CVG-BOS segment, the travel agent might receive a debit memo because of repricing (LAX-CVG-BOS is likely cheaper than LAX-CVG). The repricing is based on the actual segments that were really used.
However, with JFK-LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK Qantas cannot simply reprice that JFK-LAX, because Qantas cannot quote a Y- or C-fare for the segment JFK-LAX. If Qantas does so, the travel agent is probably very happy to forward that quote to the DOJ or DOT.
Changing the entire booked route JFK-LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK to Y-Fare is difficult. Do you think the QF terms & conditions allow this? I mean LAX-AKL-LAX-JFK was not even used.
Nov 2, 2009, 7:05 am
#12
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Nov 2, 2009, 3:00 pm
#13
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That does not break Cabotage rules. Qantas choose not to allow the selling of the LAX/JFK legs on such a routing.
DO a search in this forum for threads containing "cabotage". You'll find more than you ever knew ...
Nov 2, 2009, 10:49 pm
#14
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AA certainly could sell seats on QF LAX-JFK flight as an AA codeshare if it chose to; there are several ways to do this and avoid cabotage. It is hardly new; Braniff operated BA's Concorde from Dulles to Houston for several years, for example (in their case as a dry lease). Lots of reasons why AA doesn't do this
Nov 2, 2009, 11:35 pm
#15
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Assuming QF only has traffic rights between AU and US, they must maintain an appropriate traffic restriction on the LAX-JFK flight:
[KVS Availability Tool 5.1.2/Diamond - Amadeus Operational Info: QF 107/02 Nov 2009]
Code:
QANTAS AIRWAYS - QF 107
[Planned Flight Info]
SYD-LAX 11:50/Mon - 06:15/Mon 13:25
LAX-JFK 08:50/Mon - 16:50/Mon 05:00
[Flight Notes]
LAX-JFK Q/ INTL ONLINE CONNECTING OR STOPOVR TRAFFIC ONL
TR APPLIES ON BRD POINT
MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
SYD-LAX DEPARTS TERMINAL 1
LAX-JFK DEPARTS TERMINAL B
SYD-LAX ARRIVES TERMINAL B
LAX-JFK ARRIVES TERMINAL 7
1/ MOVIE
15/ IN-SEAT VIDEO PLAYER/LIBRARY
4/ AUDIO PROGRAMMING
7/ DUTY FREE SALES
9/ NON-SMOKING
ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
SYD-LAX MANDATORY NAME GENDER DOB REQMTS REFR US SECURE
SYD-JFK MANDATORY NAME GENDER DOB REQMTS REFR US SECURE
LAX-JFK REFER GGAIRQF TRAFFIC MS043 FOR RESTRICTION
SYD-LAX FLIGHT PLUS MANDATORY US VISA REQMTS REFR ESTA
SYD-JFK FLIGHT PLUS MANDATORY US VISA REQMTS REFR ESTA
SYD-LAX VISIT QANTAS.COM FOR ELIGIBILITY AND INSTRUCTION
SYD-JFK VISIT QANTAS.COM FOR ELIGIBILITY AND INSTRUCTION
SYD-LAX ADV PAX WWW.SMARTRAVELLER.GOV.AU AND REF GG APIS
SYD-JFK ADV PAX WWW.SMARTRAVELLER.GOV.AU AND REF GG APIS
[Operational Info]
SYD 11:57 LEFT THE GATE
SYD 12:09 TOOK OFF
LAX 06:15 ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL
LAX 06:09 AIRCRAFT LANDED
LAX 06:19 ARRIVED
LAX 08:58 LEFT THE GATE
LAX 09:10 TOOK OFF
JFK 16:40 ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL
JFK 16:34 AIRCRAFT LANDED
JFK 16:46 ARRIVED